Disney Settles Class Action Lawsuit for Visually Impaired

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

:dogsnicker:

[Lou... 3,118]

How about someone getting injured in the line of duty, but instead of taking disability, there are modifications already in place where they can continue to work and pull a steady paycheck?

I'm all for that, but the new job should not be one that requires an ability that the person on disability is no longer able to perform due to their disability.

If it's absolutely vital that a job requires a lot of reading in order to perform it properly, then a blind person should not have that job.

Web sites, emails, faxes, printed material, hand written notes, all have to be converted to braille. And that's ridiculous.

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

For all that you say, Lou, he is the BEST Dispatcher this County has EVAH had - blind, or not. Dispatching and handling calls never did require sight ... until technology intervened. Were they supposed to fire him - or require ADA Compliant computers, etc.

[Lou... 3,118]

Were they supposed to fire him - or require ADA Compliant computers, etc.

Not fire him but move him as the job requirements have changed.

Who's paying for making those computer ADA compliant? Never mind, I know the answer.

It doesn't make sense to move heaven and earth to give one person a specific job. There are other jobs.

I'm sorry that he's blind and feel compassion for him, but.

[wak648...Bill 94]

I'm sorry that he's blind and feel companion for him, but.

Wow you work one night shift and you are already looking for ways not to be home alone during the day.

[Lou... 3,118]

Wow you work one night shift and you are already looking for ways not to be home alone during the day.

oops, spell check only works if it's not a word.

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

He can still do the job required without the equipment - it's only an addition that can help with the job. Stuff from the State; Feds other Law Enforcement, etc. (BOLOs etc.) don't require anything more than a braille reader that interacts with the message program ... and it was provided FREE. He uses ORCA along with VINUX - both of which are free - to type up the dispatch logs and 911 call information. He is a member of the Sheriff's Department - where do they move him too? This is the ONLY job that doesn't really require much ADA compliance.

Who makes ADA Compliant computers - every company that makes one. The computers themselves don't require special modifications - it's the software ... and a lot of that requires little or no change. It's when you get into specialized/customized software that the issues arise. I think ADA Compliance is needed in some cases. Our courtroom is on the second floor; the only access was by using stairs; not too wheelchair friendly; so they had to install an elevator. When something is obviously needed, then I think it should be required - when it's stupid (like the Command Center mentioned), then it shouldn't be ...

[ftwildernessguy 778]

I had a problem with an individual who made life a living hell for me at my office with ADA compliance. Continuously calling the office, asking if we were compliant, threatening lawsuits. Could we put in a ramp? Nope - the building was too close to the street and in order to meet the rules we would end up with the ramp extending into the road. Put in an elevator? Widen the doorways? Remodel the bathroom? Sorry, buddy, but due to the age of my building and the business, plus the expense necessary to alter things, we were grandfathered in and didn't need to comply. This guy was suing everybody in the Valley for noncompliance until a judge finally refused to hear any more of his cases. He moved elsewhere and is now harrassing a new set of businesses. The ADA is typical of a law originating in good intentions, but so vague it is open to interpretation and abuse. My guess is Disney could have won this, but the bad publicity and expense of the suit dictated the outcome.

[Lil Lisa 53]

Ed... Have you ever modified software to make it compliant? As I previously stated, I have. It is NOT easy and many times it requires that features requested by average users be omitted or that a completely separate code base be created for impaired vs non-impaired users. It is not easy and it is not cheap. Who pays for it? We do through higher taxes or in the case of Disney through higher admission and site fees.

[ftwildernessguy 778]

Yeah, nothing is free. It may be provided at no cost to an individual or business, but you can bet the taxpayers are footing the bill.

[SCTigerCock 171]

I The ADA is typical of a law originating in good intentions, but so vague it is open to interpretation and abuse. My guess is Disney could have won this, but the bad publicity and expense of the suit dictated the outcome.

I agree with this 100%.

I believe the law states "reasonable accomidation". That is wide open to interpretation and misinterpretation.

Once again I think there should be a valid cost/benefit for most modifications. And I disagree with forcing a grandfathered site, being forced to make retrofits. But, I also disagree with companies not making truely reasonable accomidations due to prejudices. And thus, why we can agrue this until Ed is blue in the face. No offence meant to blue faced people.

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

That's just it Lisa and ftwildernessguy - he doesn't use any special software. The usb braille adapter for the Law Enforcement network works out of the box and was provide by an Organization for the Blind ... at no cost to the Government. He uses a basic word processor app that came with Vinux (a version of Linux that is coded for the visually handicapped ... and is free open source software) that ORCA handles with no problem for all his record keeping. Total Cost of ADA compliance to the Sheriff's Office = $0.00 Because he draws Social Security Disability, his salary is limited or he would lose the disability income - which means if the Sheriff's Office hired a non-handicapped person to replace him it would cost them more ...

[ftwildernessguy 778]

This situation, then, has little to do with the topic at hand.

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

Yes ... and no. The fact that the items necessary to meet ADA Compliance were free - in this case - doesn't mean that there aren't situations where compliance is reasonable ... even if it does cost money. The elevator to reach the second floor courtroom, for example. The County Commissioners did every thing they could to prevent installing some ADA Compliant way to reach the second floor even when the County Attorney advised them otherwise. When they were pressured by the State & Feds and it was pointed out to them that it would cost them a LOT more if it had to go to court - and they would STILL have to put in the elevator, they folded. I think there are a lot of times people go too far forcing compliance - but there are times when it's needed and wouldn't happen without the ADA laws.

[SCTigerCock 171]

I think there are a lot of times people go too far forcing compliance - but there are times when it's needed and wouldn't happen without the ADA laws.

What the sam hell is going on? I'm agreeing with Ed.....(again). :banghead:

PLEASE move this to the debate forumn, I have stopped going there, and then I won't have to agree with Ed! :heart: :wave1:

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

I'm going to sue. Parent swap isn't good enough for me. I want a babysitter to keep my kid while we ride the rides he's too short for.

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

I'm going to sue. Parent swap isn't good enough for me. I want a babysitter to keep my kid while we ride the rides he's too short for.

Maybe they can stuff him in one of the dog kennels they are putting in :rofl2:

[PureTcrazy...rita 380]

Y'all may or may not realize that I am a Special Education teacher. My job duties have changed a lot since I moved to the DJJ facility, but I am still a Special Ed teacher in my heart! I agree that there are folks who push for unreasonable accommodations, but maybe some of us need to spend sometime depending on our guide dog or maneuvering our way around with that wheelchair. Reasonable Accommodations allow folks to experience close to the same pleasures those of us without disabilities are able to enjoy. They allow people to work and enjoy the fruits of their labors.

On this board, I hear over and over about the sorry folks out there drawing a check and they should be working blah blah blah. So we introduce a blind person who was educated at the Florida School for the Blind and Deaf and got a job that he was more than able to do when he was hired. The job changes a bit and "reasonable accommodations" were made to allow him to continue to be a member of the working class. He is experienced and knowledgeable and this increases the efficiency of our sheriff's office and his work enriches his life. I see this as a win/win situation. Are we seriously arguing that he should have been forced to change jobs? What job would he do?

Lisa, I don't know much about writing software :technobabble: and it would be ridiculous to do this if there was no one to use it. If it is possible that your PITA allows someone to work, then it is worth it in my book! :)

Junior has completed 30 years already on his job and is a valued employee. He is also a Ham radio operator and avid FB user! His radio tower was recently damaged. It only took one week on FB for folks to raise the money to install a new tower and people volunteered to do the work for free. He keeps us posted on FB of any threatening weather conditions! The only time I recall him challenging anyone about accommodations was when the old Bill's Dollar Store would not allow him to bring his service dog into the store back in the 80's. All that took was a call to a District level manager.

My mother spent most of her life with serious vision limitations and she is completely deaf in one ear with only partial hearing in her other ear. She did not enter the work force until I was in high school. She used a phone that had a special handset to increase the volume and a light that flashed when the phone rang to accommodate her hearing loss. She used a lighted magnifier to accommodate her vision issues. Were those reasonable accommodations?

We have students in our schools that require accommodations on our computer based FCAT testing. Should we not spend the money to test them? Technology has made accommodating those with disabilities so much easier in some respects, although it may be costly. We are telling kids, "you can do...." I think reasonable costs to allow someone to participate in work and leisure activities is worth every penny we spend and more!

I think Disney should have made the proper accommodations without having to be taken to court. That would have saved them a bundle! I mean really, how hard would it have been to let a "legally blind" person use the parade viewing area? I know my mama was legally blind and could have benefited from that at one time before her surgery. Change the policy to make sure characters took pictures with blind folks and their dogs, come on that one is too easy. Somewhere to keep a service dog while they ride a ride that the dog can't ride or allow them to use the child swap doesn't seem to be that big of deal. Is that really asking a lot? I don't know how difficult the software issue is so maybe that might be deemed unreasonable? At the very least, they should offer them a toll free phone number to access if they aren't going to have an accessible website.

In my opinion, there are always going to be those folks that push the limits of rules. Heck, that's how we were able to do the 1-day Platinum package and milk it for every penny! Fastpass abuse? Is it abuse or pushing the limits of the rules? Pool hopping? Refillable mugs? How many arguments have we seen about "fat people on scooters who don't need them?" "older kids in strollers?" I'm sure everyone does not agree on those things either!

[SCTigerCock 171]

Rita for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:jumpforjoy :jumpforjoy :jumpforjoy

[ftwildernessguy 778]

Well, to clarify my position, the guy who was harrassing me had never stepped foot into my place and had no intention of doing so. He would sit at home, decide what business type he was going to torment, and start going through the phone book making calls and asking questions, then threatening lawsuits. He actually sued a local municipality not because they didnt have handicapped parking in a lot at a park, because they did. He sued because if he chose to park in the far netherlands of the lot, where it was gravel, not paved, he couldn't maneuver his wheelchair. Come on. Needless to say, this was the straw that broke the camels back with the judge who refused to hear any more of his cases. In my situation, I had already looked into making my place accessible but it was impossible due to the structure, its age and proximity to the road without costing an amount of money more than the value of the building. The bathroom renovations alone would be over 30,000 bucks. All for one patient who finds my place in its current state perfectly accessible. After about the third call from the previous mentioned individual, I got on the phone with him and started quoting parts of the law and my responsibility. Like so many trouble makes and pot stirrers, he hung up and I never heard from him again. I stand by what I said previously re. the ADA. It was founded on good intentions, but left too vague and open to interpretation. I don't think anyone here wants to deny access to anyone, but everyone has limitations and we have to adjust our lives accordingly, not expect a business to do whatever is necessary to accomodate us. I have hay fever which can be debilitating certain times of the year. Is it Disney's responsibility to make the Fort pollen free for me?

[Lou... 3,118]

Rita, in response to your post:

Yes

No

Maybe

Of course not

Absolutely

It depends on what kind of mood Ed is in.

Correctomundo

(not necessarily in that order)

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

There are people on both sides of the equation - people like the jackwagon ftwildernessguy had to deal with and businesses on the other side that could make REASONABLE changes and fight it tooth and nail. The problem is the word reasonable - everyone probably has a different definition of it.

When I had my websites up, I made them accessible with very little difficulty - and it was bleeding edge at the time with :techno: css; w3c certification; etc. I made it Lynx browser friendly, so someone with a visual handicap could access my sites. Did it require extra work - sure. Was it really THAT much extra ... no. Did I HAVE to do so ... again, no. Why did I do so ... because I wanted people that wouldn't normally have access to the information I posted a way to have that access. The fact that my sites got 1000's of hits a day back in the 90's should mean something ... . Almost any website can be modified fairly easily to meet Lynx compliance (alt, name and title are your friends) - sorry, JavaScript and Adobe Flash are NOT supported.

[Lil Lisa 53]

Ed, there is a HUGE difference between a webSITE and a web APPLICATION when it comes to a screen reader. Most websites are text and links which a screen reader can handle as easily as reading a document. When it comes to what I do at work and what the the disney reservations system does, we are talking about web applications, not a simple text website. Your information about javascript and flash is also hopelessly out of date. Screen readers have improved in this area, but this is where all of the extra time (and money) comes in. We have to fill in the blanks where the default screen reader functionality fails, which is often. I appreciate the emotion that you are putting into this argument, but having a website "in the 90's" does not make you an expert on web applications today. A lot has changed in 20 years.

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

As far as the Lynx BROWSER is concerned, the information about JavaScript and Adobe Flash IS still current!

I am well aware that a lot has changed in 20 (actually closer to 10 in this case) years. I've also kept up to date with a lot of those changes. Yes, web applications are a lot harder to accommodate, but there are other options than web applications. If you plan from the beginning to make your website accessible, you only need one website (frequently, if there is a separate text based website it is rarely updated). That would do away with a lot of the pizazz on your website, so you might want to have that separate website ... but you would have to make sure it is updated at the same time as the fancy site. Of course, the simplest method ... do as Rita suggested - give the visually handicapped a toll free number to call.

[ftwildernessguy 778]

Last time I checked, a toll free number was only free to the individual making the call. It still costs the business for toll free access, not to mention the person(s) to field the calls.