The Fort's New Neighbor - Four Seasons Resort Plans

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

I found these this morning.

It's the plans for the new Golden Oaks Four Seasons Resort that's going in near the Fort.

Check it out:

Overall Plan

Plans

WBI

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Great job again, WBI!

This place looks pretty nice.

There are some interesting things mentioned on the plans.

Like waterfalls.

And a big teen area.

And a "Ruinous Mansion."

WTF is a Ruinous Mansion?

If I am reading these plans right, it looks like all of this will be right across the canal from the 1800 and 1900 loops.

Interesting.

TCD

[Roller ... aka Ed 351]

I have it on good authority

Subject: GED Test

WARNING!!! All active or retired educators should not read these responses to GED questions as most of us hate to see teachers cry in despair.

The following questions were set in last year's GED examination

These are genuine answers (from 16 year olds)............and they WILL breed.

Q. Name the four seasons

A. Salt, pepper, mustard and vinegar

That the Four Seasons are Salt, Pepper, Mustard and Vinegar ... :rofl2:

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

If I am reading these plans right, it looks like all of this will be right across the canal from the 1800 and 1900 loops.

Interesting.

TCD

I smell covert canoe trip!!

I have it on good authority

That the Four Seasons are Salt, Pepper, Mustard and Vinegar ... :rofl2:

Ed, will you please share the kungaloosh with the rest of us?

:rofl2:

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

Great job again, WBI!

This place looks pretty nice.

There are some interesting things mentioned on the plans.

Like waterfalls.

And a big teen area.

And a "Ruinous Mansion."

WTF is a Ruinous Mansion?

If I am reading these plans right, it looks like all of this will be right across the canal from the 1800 and 1900 loops.

Interesting.

TCD

Thanks TCD!

I don't think its that close to the 1800 and 1900 loops though.

Do you remember that bridge that stops you from canoeing into the golf course? You can see it on there at the northern boundary of the resort. It looks like the resort will be accross the canal from the exisiting golf clubhouse.

The resort does have some nice looking stuff though! Kind of looks like it has a lazy river and waterslides.

WBI

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Thanks TCD!

I don't think its that close to the 1800 and 1900 loops though.

Do you remember that bridge that stops you from canoeing into the golf course? You can see it on there at the northern boundary of the resort. It looks like the resort will be accross the canal from the exisiting golf clubhouse.

The resort does have some nice looking stuff though! Kind of looks like it has a lazy river and waterslides.

WBI

I took another look at the plans. You are right- it isn't as close to the 1800 and 1900 loops as I thought.

This drawing is pretty good for showing the location:

They show the main Fort Wilderness roads and canals in that drawing, but they don't show the loop roads. I roughly drew in the 1500-1900 loops here:

So, it's close to the Fort, but not across from the 1800 or 1900 loops.

After studying it some more, I am kind of surprised by how this is all planned out. The placement of the resort here will create a lot of traffic around the Golden Oak residential area. I thought the resort would be further away from the Golden Oaks residences. I guess they put it here so the Golden Oaks folks will share transportation with the Four Seasons folks.

TCD

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

Can someone give me the Clif's Notes version of this place?

Does Disney have a hand in it?

Is it considered part of "WDW resort"?

Can you put up a clothesline?

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Can someone give me the Clif's Notes version of this place?

Does Disney have a hand in it?

Is it considered part of "WDW resort"?

Can you put up a clothesline?

The Four Seasons Resort is a private resort being built by the Four Seasons company.

Disney sold off the land that used to be the Eagle Pines golf course to a new corporation. Part of the land is being developed as the Golden Oaks project, which is single family homes. Some of Golden Oaks land has been platted, and some lots have sold, and McMansions are going up as we speak.

The Four Seasons part of this will be a non-Disney resort. The exact details of what it will include have not been disclosed. These plans that WBI dug up are show more detail than I have seen anywhere else. These plans are just part of the application process, and ground has not yet been broken for the Four Seasons resort.

I am not sure about the clothesline thing. If I had to guess I would say no.

TCD

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

Thanks for the info, TCD. I wonder why Disney sold off that particular property? It seems like it could have been valuable to them in the future for more resort space.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Thanks for the info, TCD. I wonder why Disney sold off that particular property? It seems like it could have been valuable to them in the future for more resort space.

I guess Disney wanted the cash.

This deal was first announced back in 2007. It was supposed to be built and operating by 2010. They are just now getting around to beginning the permitting process.

Here is an old press release from 2007:

LUXURY RESORT AND GOLF COMMUNITY

Along the northeast border of Walt Disney World Resort, Disney plans to convert its Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge golf courses into a luxury resort and golf community. The development will include a luxury hotel, 18-hole championship golf course, single- and multi-family vacation homes and fractional ownership vacation homes.

Disney entered into a letter of intent with Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts to bring these two complementary and respected brands together to anchor a new world-class family resort destination.

Four Seasons is dedicated to perfecting the travel experience through continuous innovation and the highest standards of hospitality. Currently with 74 hotels in 31 countries, and more than 25 properties under development, Four Seasons continues to lead the hospitality industry with innovative enhancements, making business travel easier and leisure travel more rewarding. The deeply instilled Four Seasons culture is personified in its employees – people who share a single focus and are inspired to offer great service. Four Seasons currently operates two properties in Florida, Four Seasons Hotel Miami and the Four Seasons Resort Palm Beach.

"The Resort will have all the ingredients needed to create memorable vacations: gracious and caring staff; beautiful surroundings that are thoughtfully designed; and services and amenities that make every experience one to cherish," said Kathleen Taylor, president and chief operating officer, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. "It's an honor to collaborate with Walt Disney World Resort on this project. Walt Disney's reputation for service excellence and exceptional family entertainment amenities is an ideal complement to the values of Four Seasons. Central Florida will be a valuable addition to our family of resorts, particularly since this is a destination our guests already enjoy."

Once terms of the project are finalized, site work could begin later this year, with a hotel opening forecasted for 2010.

These photos accompanied the press release:

Initially, there was speculation that this new project would include development all the way to Bay Lake. But, the actual land conveyed does not include any Bay Lake access.

Of interest to Fort Wilderness fans is the fact that Fort Wilderness sits immediately to the west of the land shown in the last photo above. The marketing folks showed Port Orleans Riverside, but apparently didn't want to mention that the new development's closest neighbor is a campground.

Also, the press release suggests that both Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge golf courses would be included in the development. It appears that the Osprey Ridge course will not be modified. The Eagle Pines course is gone, and the land has been used for the Golden Oaks development, and this land is also where the new Four Seasons resort is planned to go.

TCD

[SCTigerCock 171]

Did they actually deed over the acreage to Four Seasons? I did a cursory review of the financials and didn't see mention of the sale.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Did they actually deed over the acreage to Four Seasons? I did a cursory review of the financials and didn't see mention of the sale.

I recall seeing an actual deed to a new company. The new company may be a subsidiary of some type, but, yes, there was an actual conveyance of the title of the land to a new entity. The interesting thing to me, though, is that the Golden Oaks part of this sure has been made to appear like it is part of the Disney resort. They even have info about it on the official Disney site. For all I know, the Four Seasons part of it could also be silently controlled by Disney.

TCD

[DaveInTN 3,247]

They better put a darn good fence around the place. I would hate to think that those Four Seasons guests would be coming over to use our pool. :rofl2:

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

From The Daily Disney...

Four Seasons finalizes deal for $360 million hotel at Disney World

This rendering shows the planned $360 million luxury resort at Walt Disney World. (Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts)

By Jason Garcia, Orlando Sentinel 4:40 p.m. EDT, September 13, 2011

Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts said Tuesday it has secured financing for a $360 million luxury resort at Walt Disney World and will begin construction of the long-planned project in December.

The 444-room hotel, which will include a rooftop restaurant with views of the Magic Kingdom and a "lazy river" water feature, among other amenities, is expected to open in mid- or late 2014. The project will also include as many as 40 Four Seasons time-share units and up to 90 Four Seasons private residences.

Four Seasons will hold a 30 percent stake in the project, with the remaining equity split between Silverstein Properties, a New York real-estate developer, and Dune Real Estate Partners, a New York private-equity fund. Grupo Financiero Inbursa, a Mexico City-based bank, will provide $190 million in debt financing.

"This is something that we've been very excited about for a long time, so this is exciting for us to get to this milestone," said Scott Woroch, Four Seasons' executive vice president of worldwide development. "And we're very enthusiastic about being on the cusp of getting shovels into the ground."

Toronto-based Four Seasons bought the land for the hotel from Disney World in August 2008 for approximately $51 million, according to property records. The land, in the northeast portion of Disney World, includes Disney's Osprey Ridge golf course, which will be incorporated into the resort.

Officials initially hoped to open the resort by last year, but the project was slowed by the global recession and credit crunch.

"When we first went into the market and started talking about this in '08, there was no market. No one wanted to talk to us," said Larry Silverstein, chief executive of Silverstein Properties, which secured the construction loan and oversaw master planning, among other responsibilities. "It got a little better in '09 and it got a lot better in '10."

Silverstein estimated that 2,000 construction workers would be hired to work on the project. Four Seasons says it expects to employ "several hundred" workers to staff the hotel along with its restaurants, spa and other facilities.

It was Disney that first approached Four Seasons about buying the land. Disney is banking on Four Seasons, one of the most prestigious brands in the lodging industry, to provide an enticing amenity for buyers in "Golden Oak," a residential subdivision of multimillion-dollar homes that Disney is developing in the same area. About a dozen Golden Oak mansions are under construction currently; Disney says the project will ultimately have about 450 homes.

Four Seasons will become the second elite hotel brand to build at Disney World in recent years. Waldorf Astoria in 2009 opened a 498-room resort on a piece of land in Bonnet Creek, a small area in the midst of Disney World that is not owned by the giant resort.

Although the Four Seasons will include approximately 37,750 square feet of meeting and event space, the Disney World hotel is likely to cater to a higher mix of leisure travelers than the typical Four Seasons. The company currently operates 85 hotels, with roughly two-thirds in cities and the other third in resort destinations.

Woroch said he expects a roughly 50-50 split between leisure and business travelers at the Orlando location.

[email protected] or 407-420-5414

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-daily-disney/os-four-seasons-disney-world-20110913,0,3963359.story

[SCTigerCock 171]

So The Fort Fiends can canal hop into thier lazy river?

So does that mean the it will be on the shore of Bay Lake?

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Monique-

Thanks for the info!

Geez- I had no idea this thing was going to be so big.

I loved this tidbit:

The 444-room hotel, which will include a rooftop restaurant with views of the Magic Kingdom

Views of the Magic Kingdom?

Are they kidding?

The castle and Space Mountain are barely visible from the shores of Bay Lake behind the 300 loop.

What are diners in the rooftop restaurant going to see?

The bad new for the Fort is that if guests can see the MK from the hotel, then the hotel is going to be visible from Fort Wilderness.

So The Fort Fiends can canal hop into thier lazy river?

So does that mean the it will be on the shore of Bay Lake?

The land conveyed to Four Seasons does not extend to Bay Lake.

Thank goodness.

With 444 rooms in the hotel, plus all the other crap they're building, there is going to be a lot of traffic in and out of that place.

TCD

[Discamper 394]

So I guess we now see how our $55 a night for a pad they realy don't care about

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

There was a little press release in my local paper, the St. Petersburg Times, about the new Four Seasons Resort.

They emphasized the Magic Kingdom view.

That got me wondering again if I was mistaken about the location of this thing.

So, I looked at the plans again.

This screen cap gives a good overview of the plans:

Now, let's look at some aerial photos.

This one shows the same area as depicted in the plans. Look at the large oval of trees. That matches up with the large oval on the plans- it is marked with diagonal lines, which indicates this is designated as wetlands:

I noticed something new when looking at the aerials.

Do you see the Mickey profile depicted on the plans?

That is the putting green next to the golf clubhouse.

Here's a closer look at it:

I never knew about this Hidden Mickey.

Now that we have some landmarks to look at, let's zoom out and look at where the Four Seasons will be in relation to Fort Wilderness and Bay Lake:

To orient yourself, the big parking area in the center of the photo is the TTC parking lot. The Seven Seas Lagoon is right above this. Bay Lake is to the right of the Seven Seas Lagoon. You can see Discovery Island there in Bay Lake. If you look over to the right of the photo, toward the center, you will see the area we were looking at in the previous photos. Look for that oval tree area. The area right across from the canal from here, which is currently one of the golf course fairways, is where the new pond will be dug, with the hotel right to the east of it. While guests may have a view of the MK from the roof of the hotel, I would hardly try to make that a selling point.

For you slow learners, here's a copy of that last photo with the location of the new hotel circled in red:

This photo also confirms that the hotel is far from Bay Lake.

I guess they could figure out a way to ferry folks up and down the canal and into the lake. The big issue is that there is a large dam at the end of the canal. I think that dam controls the water level in all of the Fort's canals. I'm sure a bright engineer could work around this.

That would be interesting.

TCD

[TheLug 10]

I am 100% not a fan of Disney actually selling their property, and not just leasing. I think that is a STUPID Mistake!!!!!! It WILL come back and bite them in the A$$!!

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Nice work, TCD!

I'm betting the "view of the Magic Kingdom" will require one very tall building and some high powered binoculars!

[DaveInTN 3,247]

Nice work, TCD!

I'm betting the "view of the Magic Kingdom" will require one very tall building and some high powered binoculars!

True. But I would guess that they will be able to view the MK fireworks from up there. In the distance, to be sure, but probably not a terrible view.

[TheLug 10]

The view of the Fireworks from BuenaVista Palace at DTD isn't horrible! So this should be O.K.

[caveat lector 181]

I am 100% not a fan of Disney actually selling their property, and not just leasing. I think that is a STUPID Mistake!!!!!! It WILL come back and bite them in the A$$!!

Yep. I thought that was Walt's intention, to avoid a repeat of seedy businesses encroachment in Anaheim. I'm sure the staff of contract reviewers included language, but still.......

[rdancemom... Pam 113]

The view of the Fireworks from BuenaVista Palace at DTD isn't horrible! So this should be O.K.

That's what I was thinking. You can see the MK from many of the rooms in the Wyndham Palace at DTD. Starla used to be part of an elite group of dancers that spent 7-10 days in that hotel each summer dancing on the disney stages and taking master classes. We often watched both MK & illuminations fireworks from our rooms. It sure wasn't what I'd sell a room on but it was visible in the distance if you looked.

This is probably just another example of different perspectives. Like most press release quotes, they didn't define exactly what their idea of "views of the Magic Kingdom" are but I'm fairly certain they're likely to very different from ours - and probably from what the folks paying $600+ a night to stay there are expecting also - unless they come up with imagineered MK virtual windows or something... :rofl2:

[PureTcrazy...rita 380]

Did anyone notice if they had begun work on this project?