It's An Old Dog; New Tricks; Pop And Fort TCD Trip Report

[The Troll 67]

Supposedly, Walt noticed it while surveying possible land tracts from the air. I have heard this story a couple of times, and it sounds plausible to me. But for now, I am filing the Shipwreck Island story under B.S..

This is correct. Discovery Island and Bay Lake are natural features of the area. Walt had several prospective areas in mind for WDW and decided on its final location when he spotted Discovery Island while surveying the land in a helicopter. I believe he saw the island, smiled, and turned to his compatriots and said, "Let's do it!"

While Bay Lake is a natural lake, the Imagineers did pump all the sand out of it and clean it before pumping it back in. That's what led a lot of early visitors to conclude that Bay Lake was man-made.

[Lou... 3,118]

I have heard the story about Walt Disney and Shipwreck Island from a couple of CMs on the boats.

I also heard stories about CMs in training having driven boats aground on the island and so it was called Shipwreck Island.

I tend to agree with TCD in that it's a lot of BS.

Tri-B

I'm not saying that the Ship Wreck Island story is true, but the behind the scenes stuff and trivia told by most CMs while you're on transit is usually, not always, based on fact. We were told a lot of trivia and all of it is true.

So consider the source. If it's Maybeline the site keeper, it's crap. If it's a veteran boat pilot, probably true.

[Discamper 394]

Here is a photo of bay lake at the top is Discovery Island the road is World dr. the right hand side of world dr the cleared land is the Contemporary. This is before they dredge the channel and 7 seas lagoon.

Here is a closer look there is no island there before they dredge it. So Ship Wreck Island it one of those great CM stories we all make up and tell guess just to see how far it goes.

Here it is after all the dredging

[Lou... 3,118]

So Ship Wreck Island is one of those great CM stories we all make up and tell guess just to see how far it goes.

I don't agree that all CMs make up stories just to pull guests chain. I never have and never will.

I realize that some irresponsible CMs may do so from time to time, but it's not widespread and has not been my experience over the last 15 years.

Unknowingly, false information and untrue stories do get repeated by CMs, but consciously making stuff up and passing it off as true, unless it's part of the show of course, when it's known not to be, is also grounds for termination.

I've seen CMs get written up for less.

[Discamper 394]

I don't agree that all CMs make up stories just to pull guests chain. I never have and never will.

I realize that some irresponsible CMs may do so from time to time, but it's not widespread and has not been my experience over the last 15 years.

Unknowingly, false information and untrue stories do get repeated by CMs, but consciously making stuff up and passing it off as true, unless it's part of the show of course, when it's known not to be, is also grounds for termination.

I've seen CMs get written up for less.

My Fort team did it all the time. One would come up with a story and everyone would add to it their Owen piece of the story to make it more fun. When a guess told one of the CM in on the story what they heard you would always see them smile and make up something up to add the story. We had a great time doing it.

[Sensei 18]

This is correct. Discovery Island and Bay Lake are natural features of the area. Walt had several prospective areas in mind for WDW and decided on its final location when he spotted Discovery Island while surveying the land in a helicopter. I believe he saw the island, smiled, and turned to his compatriots and said, "Let's do it!"

While Bay Lake is a natural lake, the Imagineers did pump all the sand out of it and clean it before pumping it back in. That's what led a lot of early visitors to conclude that Bay Lake was man-made.

That explains the legend that Bay Lake was man made. Funny how things get modified each time their story is told. Even some of the fellows I knew that worked on the project believed the lake was man made. Now we have the rest of the story.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

On other forums, Pop Century's bus situation is said to be the best, I would agree to a point.

It has it's own dedicated buses in the morning that are called in by a dispatcher sitting in a van just outside the main entrance. When he sees that a que is getting long, he calls a bus and within two minutes it's there. Coronado Springs does not. All Star Resorts & Port Orleans do as well.

Magicbus- That is a very interesting bit of information there. I have noticed that the WDW bus system has changed substantially in the last few years. Some of it I like, but some of it I don't. For example, the buses to Epcot and Hollywood Studios often drop guests off at a place much more distant than the resort bus stops. This is obviously because those buses are not going to be returning to the resort that they just came from, but will instead be waiting someplace for their next assignment. The larger resorts get quicker pick-up from the theme parks this way. During our visit to Pop Century, we used the buses for travel to both Epcot and the Magic Kingdom, and back, and we had very little wait time.

Oh, and by the way, congratulations to your Boston Bruins for a winning Game 7 of the NHL Conference championship and advancing to the Stanley Cup finals. Game 7 was a great game, and it could have gone either way. This time, your team won. It was a clean and well played game by both teams. So, congratulations, and good luck.

Just a note about the "Walt running aground" story. This could not have happened as Bay Lake is man made and was not completed until most of the MK was in place. Part of the area where the lake is was used as fill for the theme park and surrounding area. The island was, to my understanding, an original design element to break up the open area of water and add some visual interest. Later it became Discovery Island which eventually went the way of River Country. When Walt toured this area, this was basically a swamp and there wasn't a clearly defined lake. I hunted that area with my Dad when I was young. Lots of deer and hogs used to live there. These are the facts as I know them and came from having a number of friends involved in the construction of DW from the beginning. I believe them to be true, but are subject to correction with someone with a better memory than mine.

And thank you TCD for some very interesting TR's.

Wow. That is pretty interesting that you hunted the land which eventually became WDW. That had to be 40 plus years ago. You sure have witnessed a lot of change. As later posters have pointed out, what we call Bay Lake was, in fact, in existence before Disney came along. It probably was more shallow and swampy, but it did exist.

Hello, everyone! This is my first post... someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Bay Lake is actually a natural lake. Also, Discovery Island is a real island with a history of people who owned it and lived on it. (Research: RAZ Island, Idle Bay Isle, and Riles Island) . Walt Disney purchased this in 1965. "Seven Seas Lagoon" is the man-made lake in front of the MK. So maybe there is something to the "lore" surrounding Shipwreck Island? :wave1:

Hello again to everyone!

Wow. Your first post! Welcome! (but I think I recognize your name from somewhere else, right?).

I am familiar with the history of Discovery Island from having read some of the articles that can be found on the internet.

But, I have never heard of Walt Disney himself touring Bay Lake by boat. The shipwreck story could have happened, but I can't imagine anyone being dumb enough to run aground with Walt himself aboard. At the same time, it is neat to think that Walt himself may have cruised around on Bay Lake, and personally selected the site of Fort Wilderness.

This is correct. Discovery Island and Bay Lake are natural features of the area. Walt had several prospective areas in mind for WDW and decided on its final location when he spotted Discovery Island while surveying the land in a helicopter. I believe he saw the island, smiled, and turned to his compatriots and said, "Let's do it!"

While Bay Lake is a natural lake, the Imagineers did pump all the sand out of it and clean it before pumping it back in. That's what led a lot of early visitors to conclude that Bay Lake was man-made.

Thanks for the input Norm. I have no idea if this story is true, but it is something that I have often heard.

And, if you look at some of the earliest plans for the development of WDW, it is clear that Bay Lake was considered to be an important feature of the project.

As a matter of fact, in the One Man's Dream attraction at Hollywood Studios, you will find some interesting information about Bay Lake.

In that attraction, they have this display showing Walt standing in front of a huge map of Disney World (which was then called the "Disney Florida Project"):

From what I understand, this is a mock-up from an old television broadcast.

Where Walt himself shared his vision of what would become Walt Disney World.

The big map is really interesting.

If you look way up at the top of the map, you can see Bay Lake:

And Discovery Island is right there! In fact, you can see the little peninsula that juts out into the lake there where the Shoe Tree stands today.

If you look closely, you can see the words "New Island" and "Original Shoreline" printed right there on the map. There are several islands shown on the map- more than are in the lake now. But, one of these could be our Shipwreck Island. Also note that the Seven Seas Lagoon is not shown, nor is the Magic Kingdom located where it is today. Instead, the map shows a South Seas Resort where the Contemporary Resort and Magic Kingdom ultimately ended up. I guess this is where the Seven Seas lagoon got its name. It looks like they intended to dredge this lagoon for the resort, and it looks like there were going to be canals next to the resort buildings. The size of this lagoon is way smaller than what we now know as the Seven Seas Lagoon.

Epcot is depicted on the map close to where the Epcot theme park sits today. But, Epcot is depicted as a city of tomorrow, and its northern border almost reaches all the way to Bay Lake. The water that we see curving around to the East of Bay Lake presumably would have been a big dredging project,as there is no lake there now. This area that is depicted as a lake is where the Port Orleans resort sits today. The Epcot theme park is no where near as large as the original City of Tomorrow.

In this same display, there are copies of scripts used in television broadcasts about Disney World:

I am going to have to pay this display a visit again the next time I visit Hollywood Studios. I need to get a better look at the map.

Here is a photo of bay lake at the top is Discovery Island the road is World dr. the right hand side of world dr the cleared land is the Contemporary. This is before they dredge the channel and 7 seas lagoon.

Here is a closer look there is no island there before they dredge it. So Ship Wreck Island it one of those great CM stories we all make up and tell guess just to see how far it goes.

Here it is after all the dredging

Todd-

You have found some more gold there!

Great photos!!!

Thanks for posting these.

Unless I am missing something, these show that Discovery Island was the only island in Bay Lake before all of the dredging and construction. Also, note that Discovery Island looks much smaller than it does today. From what I hear, its size was substantially increased when WDW was developed.

TCD

[Discamper 394]

When Disney drained Bay Lake and cleaned all the muck they made Discovery Island bigger and Discovery Island or the real name Raz Island was the only island before dredging

[stefa70 205]

TCD, I was hoping you would get to the fort for a visit over the weekend. :cheers:

You'd better put the pedal to the metal with these trip reports, I know you've got more stored up! :popo:

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

TCD, I was hoping you would get to the fort for a visit over the weekend. :cheers:

You'd better put the pedal to the metal with these trip reports, I know you've got more stored up! :popo:

You and me both.

But, the TCD gang had other plans for Memorial Day.

I'm hoping to get to the Fort soon before the Summer heat really hits.

And, yes, I do have two more trip reports to get to.

Thanks for reminding me.

TCD

[Hotmamac aka Misty 11]

Tim WHO??? Never heard of him.... and I don't see one dang NHL player up there... Geeze! :rofl2: And of all the Steelers they could of had, they had Rashard???!!!!? Man talk about a bad choice, I love the steelers, but they should fire that $A#$@@#$ after what he said about Bin Laden!!!

Very cool to see another report so soon, love it Andrew!

I agree 100% John!!! I, too, am a member of the Steeler Nation (althought truly I'm more of a Pens fan!)

[TheLug 10]

Here is a picture showing both the roads going under the water!! Never woulda known that if it hadn't been for a TCD Report with a gathering of the minds!

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Here is a picture showing both the roads going under the water!! Never woulda known that if it hadn't been for a TCD Report with a gathering of the minds!

Nicely done, Lug.

But, this would be even more impressive if you would tell us the names of the roads in Hebrew.

(Just kidding)

TCD

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I thought that this trip report was over.

But, Discampers photos of the site of the Contemporary Resort inspired me to look for some old photos of Bay Lake and the early years of the development of Walt Disney World.

I found this image, which is similar to Discampers'. Supposedly this was taken in 1967 from the area of what is now known as Frontierland in the Magic Kingdom, looking East. The big cleared area is where the Magic Kingdom will be built. You can see Discovery Island sitting out there in Bay Lake:

The island that has been referred to as Shipwreck Island does not yet exist.

Nor does any of the Seven Seas Lagoon.

Walt Disney died in December, 1966.

So, if Walt died in December 1966, and if this photo is really from 1967, then Walt did not run aground on Shipwreck Island.

While I am posting old photos, here is a really interesting one:

This one is dated 1969. Two years before WDW opened. We can see Shipwreck Island right at the bottom of this photo, and the site of the Contemporary Resort. But, this photo has clearly been doctored, as it also shows a resort between the Contemporary Resort and the Polynesian Resort. There was once a resort planned for that site, but, as we all know, it was never built. This "photo" also shows what was supposed to be a Persian themed resort on the site where the Grand Floridian Resort now sits. Also, look to the left of Shipwreck Island in the area of where Wilderness Lodge now sits- it looks like a roadway for a subdivision has been laid out- what the heck is that? As I think about it, I'm not sure if very much construction would have been this complete in 1969. Maybe all of this is artwork superimposed on a photo. This was years before there were computer images and photoshop. Notice how the artist/photographer even included clouds in the aerial photo for effect. Weird.

This last image appears to be a real photo, and is dated 1971:

This one also shows Shipwreck Island. Also, look to the left of Shipwreck Island, there, and notice how there is a clearing along Bay Lake about where the Wilderness Lodge now sits. There was once a plan for a resort called the Cypress Lodge, and this may have been the beginning of site work for that project, but this project, along with some of the others shown on the doctored photo from 1969, got mothballed soon after WDW opened.

Anyway, I think these photos show that both Bay Lake and Discovery Island have been around since before WDW came along.

TCD

[Sensei 18]

I appreciate all the information about Bay Lake in this thread. In doing some more research, I found the following link that supports its' existence and it's role in the scheme of WDW. My link

Just goes to show you that things you've accepted as fact for so many years aren't always true. Glad this discussion came up as I'm more informed now.

[Discamper 394]

TCD your next TR need to cover the landing strip

[Lou... 3,118]

I have noticed that the WDW bus system has changed substantially in the last few years. Some of it I like, but some of it I don't.

What you might be noticing is not changes but better execution of what has been in place for years.

The most obvious improvement is that the bus system is doing a much better job of monitoring that there are guests at the resort bus stops and park bus stops in the morning.

For example, the buses to Epcot and Hollywood Studios often drop guests off at a place much more distant than the resort bus stops. This is obviously because those buses are not going to be returning to the resort that they just came from

That is correct

but will instead be waiting someplace for their next assignment.

Drivers do know where they are going before they drop off.

Except for the 15 or so floater buses that I mentioned earlier, staged at Pop Century, All Stars, and Port Orleans, we know what our next run is.

In the morning unless there is someone waiting to return to the resort that the bus is going to, we drop off anywhere. Whatever is convenient for both the driver and guests

The rest of the day we drop off at the bus stop that we are going to next.

The larger resorts get quicker pick-up from the theme parks this way.

It may seem like it at times, but no preference is given to any resort.

During our visit to Pop Century, we used the buses for travel to both Epcot and the Magic Kingdom, and back, and we had very little wait time.

If it was in the morning and you were going to the parks, Ques were monitored.

If it was in the afternoon, it was just the normal 20 minute cycling of the buses.

If it was during closing, Ques once again were being monitored. But that is true for all the resorts. As I said, there is no preference given to any resort at opening or closing time. They're just trying to keep things balanced.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I appreciate all the information about Bay Lake in this thread. In doing some more research, I found the following link that supports its' existence and it's role in the scheme of WDW. My link

Just goes to show you that things you've accepted as fact for so many years aren't always true. Glad this discussion came up as I'm more informed now.

Thanks for the link. That is a very well-written and informative article. It confirms what Discamper said about Bay Lake being drained and de-mucked. What a project that must have been!

In fact, it is mind boggling that all we see today at WDW was carved out of nothing. The scale of what they did, and how they did it is really amazing if you stop and think about it. I can't imagine that a project like this will ever be built again.

TCD your next TR need to cover the landing strip

Good suggestion.

I will put that on my to do list.

I have not actually visited this area of WDW, but I don't think it would be too hard to do.

If it was in the morning and you were going to the parks, Ques were monitored.

If it was in the afternoon, it was just the normal 20 minute cycling of the buses.

If it was during closing, Ques once again were being monitored. But that is true for all the resorts. As I said, there is no preference given to any resort at opening or closing time. They're just trying to keep things balanced.

Lou- I appreciate the inside information that you share with us about the workings of the bus system. This is also something amazing, but overlooked, about WDW. Overall, they do a great job of moving folks around. But, I doubt many of us ever stop and think about the complex logistics that go in to this.

TCD

[Discamper 394]

I think this sum it up

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I think this sum it up

Hold on just a second, here:

1. Is that Walt in a boat? Is he near Shipwreck Island?

2. What is that giant boot? That is a giant boot, right? Where was that thing going and is it still at WDW? It looks like something at one of the All Star Resorts, but we all know those weren't built for a long time after WDW first opened.

TCD

[Discamper 394]

That is a crane dredge witch they used to demuck Bay Lake and dredge 7 sea lagoon

I don't see Walt on the Whaler

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

That is a crane dredge witch they used to demuck Bay Lake and dredge 7 sea lagoon

I don't see Walt on the Whaler

Duh- If you put a big spur on the back of that thing, it would look just like a giant cowboy boot!

I didn't think Walt was on the boat, but if those guys were puttering around Bay Lake, maybe Walt did too.

TCD

[campingpixi 11]

wow these are some old pics!!

[BouncingTiggers 98]

Wow fantastic pics of the past. I love all these old pics. To bad there isn't a digital album of all these amazing pics.

[Lou... 3,118]

TCD your next TR need to cover the landing strip

Is there something about the landing strip that is worthy of a TCD investigation?