What is happening? Is FF dying out?

[momof3kids-Yvonne 596]

Something that is probably going to add fuel to the anger some of you are feeling. Rachel and I just finished watching this weeks episode of American Idol. They announced that the nine contestants who made it through this round are being flown to WDW. They will be staying at one of the resorts and going to all 4 parks. 
 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

8 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

So according to you they are supposed to just close the Resorts so only the Pass Holders can go to the Parks.  I'll also bet you have a percentage of FPH who are making reservations and not using them

Nice straw man argument there, Dave. No, that is not what I think, and it is not what I said. 

8 hours ago, momof3kids-Yvonne said:

Something that is probably going to add fuel to the anger some of you are feeling. Rachel and I just finished watching this weeks episode of American Idol. They announced that the nine contestants who made it through this round are being flown to WDW. They will be staying at one of the resorts and going to all 4 parks. 
 

Yes, that is bad. But those kind of stunts went on before the pandemic, and have been continuing throughout. I’m sure there was national coverage of some of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers visiting WDW after the Super Bowl, and more recently Aaron Rodgers and his fiancée. All of them were doing things that a regular guest would not be able to. These stunts don’t make me angry as much as they make me marvel at the thought processes of those in charge of Disney marketing.

TCD

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

1 hour ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Nice straw man argument there, Dave. No, that is not what I think, and it is not what I said. 

Then what am I missing?  There are complaints by people trying to book Resorts and DVC saying they get a message,  "There are days during the dates selected with no Park Reservations available, please check other dates". That means they are not being given unlimited access or priority.

Based on everything I read WDW is trying their best to give both AP and the short term guests balanced access.  What else can they do?

[Travisma 1,317]

About 3 weeks ago, they opened more slots for everyone on Oct.1 at MK.

I tried to book them, but couldn't because all of our APs will have expired before then.

We all plan on renewing, but I wasn't going to purchase tickets just so I could go on that day.

Just another change making it harder to go.

And on a side note, Busch/SeaWorld are supposedly limiting the amount of guests (you have to make reservations like Disney) but the Busch parking lot was overflowing Saturday when I drove by.  We've seen pictures of SeaWorld and they are packed also.

[Lou... 3,118]

From my point of view, how Disney treats CMs/retirees now is not much different than they've been treated during normal times. They've always gotten the leftovers. Disney gives them stuff when it doesn't cost them anything. They're allowed into the parks when the parks are not overly busy. Disney loses nothing by letting them in. They give them discounted cruises and resort stays if they know they won't sell out. In all cases Disney still makes out because as guests, CMs and retirees go to the restaurans and buy Disney crap. IE, it's the same old, same old. 

The treatment didn't bother me even when I lived next to WDW because I already had been to WDW enough times to last me a life time, I prefer Universal anyway. And I had enough Disney junk and had been to the restaurants that I wanted to eat it at enough times. The lack of cruises was the only thing that affected me but that will probably change when the new ships come on line, plus there are other good cruise lines.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

1 hour ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

Then what am I missing?  There are complaints by people trying to book Resorts and DVC saying they get a message,  "There are days during the dates selected with no Park Reservations available, please check other dates". That means they are not being given unlimited access or priority.

Based on everything I read WDW is trying their best to give both AP and the short term guests balanced access.  What else can they do?

Disney can open it's parks and resorts, to full capacity.  They can bring back all castmembers and stop trying to squeeze every last dime from their guests, to fill the pockets of the execs.  They can stop requiring the guest cover their faces, so that many (like our family) might consider coming back.  That's what they can do.   

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

2 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

Disney can open it's parks and resorts, to full capacity.  They can bring back all castmembers and stop trying to squeeze every last dime from their guests, to fill the pockets of the execs.  They can stop requiring the guest cover their faces, so that many (like our family) might consider coming back.  That's what they can do.   

No they can't per the  STATE.....

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

6 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

No they can't per the  STATE.....

State or county?

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

2 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

State or county?

Actually both.  They gave the County the steps they would follow in order to re-open and what would be done as this all progressed. The County had to approve it and then sent it to the State for approval.  The same for DL, they had numerous meetings along with Universal and KBF in Calf to reopen at the end of last year to no avail.

There is no way Disney is intentionally letting numerous Resorts sit unused if they could open. That would be an absolutely stupid business decision if they wanted, as Andrew said, new money there is too much demand as people have had enough of the CDC and Washington's BS.  Here's the link to what is open and what is to open later this summer.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/experience-updates/resorts/

 

 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

14 minutes ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

Actually both.  They gave the County the steps they would follow in order to re-open and what would be done as this all progressed. The County had to approve it and then sent it to the State for approval.  The same for DL, they had numerous meetings along with Universal and KBF in Calf to reopen at the end of last year to no avail.

There is no way Disney is intentionally letting numerous Resorts sit unused if they could open. That would be an absolutely stupid business decision if they wanted, as Andrew said, new money there is too much demand as people have had enough of the CDC and Washington's BS.  Here's the link to what is open and what is to open later this summer.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/experience-updates/resorts/

 

 

I thought that DeSantis had lifted things last fall... went back and found this from September.  The EO in on the Florida gov site.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-florida-reopens-20200925-f3sr4wk5tncvvkhwr6ua4pereq-story.html

 

 

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

34 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

I thought that DeSantis had lifted things last fall... went back and found this from September.  The EO in on the Florida gov site.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-florida-reopens-20200925-f3sr4wk5tncvvkhwr6ua4pereq-story.html

 

 

 

In April of last year it was announced that it would be a phased re-opening that was going to be presented to the County and State. 

SeaWorld and Walt Disney World approved by Orange County to reopen, dates await approval by DeSantis.May 27, 2020

Universal is still following the limited park occupancy too  and they presented their plan first,so there has to be an underlying reason.  They are still at 35-40% and Spring Break week they closed the gates at noon, 4 days in a row.  Even many of the local restaurants are not using all the tables. 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

14 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

Then what am I missing?  There are complaints by people trying to book Resorts and DVC saying they get a message,  "There are days during the dates selected with no Park Reservations available, please check other dates". That means they are not being given unlimited access or priority.

Based on everything I read WDW is trying their best to give both AP and the short term guests balanced access.  What else can they do?

As a long time AP holder I paid for unlimited, unrestricted access to all 4 parks.  With the ability to park hop as I please.  Because of the pandemic those items, which I paid for, were taken away. I get it. Things had to change to accommodate as many guests as possible.   But why is it the AP seems to be hurt the most?

disney choose to sell new tickets to the parks. (Regular tickets.). Therefore limiting the access to people like myself that had already paid for tickets.   
 

What would you tell someone who bought a 7 day pass last month but when they arrived at WDW were told they could only go 4 times to the parks?  

Effectively that’s what they did to AP holders. 
 

If I was in charge I would have let AP holders but their AP on hold until they (the AP holder) were ready to return to the park or until the park Reservation system was removed and things went back to normal. 
And/or offer AP holders a big discount on their renewal to make up for the LOSS they (the AP holders) suffered due to the pandemic. 
 

 

[djsamuel 322]

9 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

I thought that DeSantis had lifted things last fall... went back and found this from September.  The EO in on the Florida gov site.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-florida-reopens-20200925-f3sr4wk5tncvvkhwr6ua4pereq-story.html

 

 

 

Desantis never had a state wide mask mandate.  When he was still of a somewhat sane mind, he said that because Florida was so large, each county should decide if they should mandate masks.  Then, he reopened the state, and made the ruling that no county or local government could level any punishment for violating a local mask mandate, persons or businesses.  Very hypocritical in the sense that he used local jurisdiction as a means to avoid being the person mandating masks and then turns around and bans the enforcement of any local decisions regarding masks.  The only thing that has limited the rise is the fact that most people continue to wear masks and ignore him.  Here in Clermont, if you go into a store, 99% of the people are still wearing masks.  Lake County never had a mask mandate and the vast majority of people still are wearing masks.  

Orange County is looking at gradually lifting the mask mandate by the end of the summer based on vaccinations and infections.  At that point, I would not be surprised to see Disney lift the mask requirements.

 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

11 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

In April of last year it was announced that it would be a phased re-opening that was going to be presented to the County and State. 

SeaWorld and Walt Disney World approved by Orange County to reopen, dates await approval by DeSantis.May 27, 2020

Universal is still following the limited park occupancy too  and they presented their plan first,so there has to be an underlying reason.  They are still at 35-40% and Spring Break week they closed the gates at noon, 4 days in a row.  Even many of the local restaurants are not using all the tables. 

Thank you.  May is an earlier date and so, I believe, those restrictions were dropped by DeSantis.

I understand what you're saying, that other attractions are also limited occupancy... I was just curious if they were following a local (county) mandate or making a company policy choice.

 

2 hours ago, djsamuel said:

Desantis never had a state wide mask mandate.  When he was still of a somewhat sane mind, he said that because Florida was so large, each county should decide if they should mandate masks.  Then, he reopened the state, and made the ruling that no county or local government could level any punishment for violating a local mask mandate, persons or businesses.  Very hypocritical in the sense that he used local jurisdiction as a means to avoid being the person mandating masks and then turns around and bans the enforcement of any local decisions regarding masks.  The only thing that has limited the rise is the fact that most people continue to wear masks and ignore him.  Here in Clermont, if you go into a store, 99% of the people are still wearing masks.  Lake County never had a mask mandate and the vast majority of people still are wearing masks.  

Orange County is looking at gradually lifting the mask mandate by the end of the summer based on vaccinations and infections.  At that point, I would not be surprised to see Disney lift the mask requirements.

 

Nah... masks are not sanity, but we can move that to the debate forum if you'd like.  DeSantis wanted to allow local control, which is a trickle down of the 10th amendment (in my opinion).  A governor allows local authorities to make decisions, until he needs to step in and take control of the state he's been given the authority to run.  I personally like that, but (then again), I am a huge proponent of small government.  Cover your face if you'd like to, a virus has to run its course before the plunge and a simple mask will not stop a virus particle.  Additionally, testing outside of PCR needs to be developed.  PCR testing is not accurate (it's interesting to listen to the Nobel Peace prize winner who created the test speak on it.. one of his interviews is below.  He talks about PCR testing, towards the end.  Of course, he's was killed (oops, I mean died) in 2019 right before the outbreak so... he cannot debate the issue).  The WHO finally outlined the dangers in relying on PCR testing in memos, in the past few months, but you won't hear that because there is money to be made. 

 

 

On the original post:   for our family, like so many, Disney has so many wonderful memories.   I have memories growing up and going to Disneyland:  ticket book in hand and then that piece of paper (card) that you wore on your wrist so you could get on the rides.  Once I was married and we moved to Georgia, DisneyWorld took over Disneyland and it was a "whole new world"   I have memories of visits when it was just Tom and I.  Then, after years and years of infertility, I have beautiful, beautiful memories of taking our babies to the WDW.  I remember the first time I pushed our baby girl's stroller off the monorail and we walked down the ramp to the MK... I was crying.  I was finally there, with MY baby.  So many beautiful, sweet memories.   Then, in 2014 we bought our first camper and everything changed:  we found the Fort.  Oh, such joy.  At that time, AAA still had discounts and we could get a preferred site for around $60/night.  Getting a reservation (we typically went in May or October) was never a problem and everything else seemed to be equally "affordable" (as affordable as vacations are at least).   Now... it all feels so different.  I don't know.  We would still go back to the Fort, but not if we had to pay $200/night and definitely not while they require you to cover your face.  It's ridiculous.  I have friends who decided to make a visit and I hear the stories of walking your dog or riding your own personal golf cart and being told to cover your face.  This world is crazy.  That IS crazy.  No, thank you.  Last year we had a fantastic time traveling our beautiful country.  We spent time in the beautiful Black Hills of SD.  We saw the beautiful Devils Tower in Wyoming and breathtaking beautiful scenery of both the Tetons and Yellowstone.  We also saw thousands of BEAUTIFUL faces.  Smiling, happy, not living in fear faces.   My beautiful parents (some of you may remember that my mother is on a black box medication and that her immune system is under constant attack), traveled the country for 4 months, including spending 5 weeks with us at our home in Georgia and traveling with us in Florida.  Beautiful faces, not living in fear.   We're getting ready to head back out in a few weeks, this time traveling out to Washington State, with time spent again in SD, a new adventure in ND and one of the granddaddies of NP:  Glacier in Montana.   We, like I dare to say many people, will not go back to Disney, until they stop the crazy.    Until they stop requiring that you cover your face or sit behind plastic.  So many beautiful memories.  My sweet baby girl, ridding the tea cups with Tom and yelling, "faster daddy, faster!"... our sweet baby boy with wet slobber kisses on all the characters... our babies growing and their experiences at so many different campsites within the Fort.  So many beautiful memories.  Right now, that's what we're cherishing:  those memories.  Outside of that, we're moving on and making more beautiful memories... just not with Disney.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mmfancipher 31]

Well, being 1400 miles away makes it hard to do a weekend trip. 😀  We will be there in 41 days, so will probably

be posting sometime after that.

[djsamuel 322]

3 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

DeSantis wanted to allow local control, which is a trickle down of the 10th amendment (in my opinion).  A governor allows local authorities to make decisions, until he needs to step in and take control of the state he's been given the authority to run.  I personally like that, but (then again), I am a huge proponent of small government. 

Desantis wanted local control when it suited him as a means to avoid a decision on a mask mandate.  I thought local control was a good idea.  Then he pulled the rug out from everybody when it was politically expedient to do so by telling local governments they cannot enforce the very rules he said they are the best to decide on.  He also required bars to incorporate very expensive precautions in order to reopen and then one week later issued a huge "never mind" and told everybody they could fully open.  Bar owners were not happy and most continued to adhere to some level of precaution.  

I too prefer small government and I voted for Desantis.  I never will again.  He is too wrapped up with building his brand.

As far as masks, all I will say is there is a reason surgeons wear masks in surgery, including cloth ones.  It is to protect the patient much like wearing a mask now is not to protect the wearer but to diffuse the air exhaled by a person and limit the distance any airborne viruses may spread. Imagine you were throwing a golf ball at a wall 30 feet away.  With no barrier, you would hit it every time.  Put a chain link fence up between you and the wall, and maybe only about 20% or less of the balls you throw would make it to the wall.  That is all a mask does.  

I'm not interesting in debating but I wanted to give another side to this since you mentioned it.  I'm done with this conversation.

[Travisma 1,317]

16 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

I thought that DeSantis had lifted things last fall... went back and found this from September.  The EO in on the Florida gov site.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-florida-reopens-20200925-f3sr4wk5tncvvkhwr6ua4pereq-story.html

 

 

 

Some counties have lifted bans, but the larger companies have not stopped requiring masks in those counties, WalMart, Costco, Lowe’s, etc.  

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

1 hour ago, djsamuel said:

 

As far as masks, all I will say is there is a reason surgeons wear masks in surgery, including cloth ones.  It is to protect the patient much like wearing a mask now is not to protect the wearer but to diffuse the air exhaled by a person and limit the distance any airborne viruses may spread. Imagine you were throwing a golf ball at a wall 30 feet away.  With no barrier, you would hit it every time.  Put a chain link fence up between you and the wall, and maybe only about 20% or less of the balls you throw would make it to the wall.  That is all a mask does.  

I'm not interesting in debating but I wanted to give another side to this since you mentioned it.  I'm done with this conversation.

Surgical masks were developed to protect the surgeon as much as the patient.  The surgeon's face is exposed to fluids, when the surgery is being performed and the patient has an open wound, which nasal/oral drainage and/or sweat from the lip could drop into.  They were not made to stop the spread of a virus and the subject of surgeons wearing masks has been in debate for years.   Even the NIH weighed in on this with a study where they found that, "It has never been shown that wearing surgical face masks decreases postoperative wound infections. On the contrary, a 50% decrease has been reported after omitting face masks. The present study was designed to reveal any 30% or greater difference in general surgery wound infection rates by using face masks or not. During 115 weeks, a total of 3,088 patients were included in the study. Weeks were denoted as "masked" or "unmasked" according to a random list. After 1,537 operations performed with face masks, 73 (4.7%) wound infections were recorded and, after 1,551 operations performed without face masks, 55 (3.5%) infections occurred. "

Several years back, I was admitted into the ER for a case of vertigo.  Being the germaphobe that I am, I grabbed a mask to cover my face, because I am convinced (I'm still convinced) that anyone who goes to the hospital gets sick.  The ER doc came into my room and (looking at me with my mask on), she asked if I was "wearing a mask to protect myself or to protect others".  I didn't want to admit that I was afraid of getting sick, so I sheepishly said, "both".  She chuckled and moved on.  After that, I looked into the efficacy of masks. 

The same as the CDC, the WHO, the surgeon general all said not to wear them, as the mask will not prevent the spread (then changed when they realized that control was needed, which is why there are many videos of "leaders" not wearing masks...even right before they put one on for the theatrics of walking up to the podium with their face covered), the same as the CDC stated during the west coast wildfires, " Paper “comfort” or “dust” masks commonly found at hardware stores trap large particles, such as sawdust. These masks will not protect your lungs from smoke."   Masks were made for the large stuff, not the small things like a virus.

"Put a chain link fence up between you and the wall, and maybe only about 20% or less of the balls you throw would make it to the wall.".   A better analogy is, wearing a mask is more like trying to stop mosquitoes with chicken wire.  

I do appreciate the conversation.  Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

1 hour ago, Travisma said:

Some counties have lifted bans, but the larger companies have not stopped requiring masks in those counties, WalMart, Costco, Lowe’s, etc.  

Understood.  I imagine those will stay up for a while, but I'd be surprised if they are being enforced... except for Costco.  I grew up in Washington state and have had a Costco membership for over 30 years (it was PriceClub before it was Costco).  This is the first time I have not renewed our membership and will not, unless they drop the mandate.  The "funny" thing about Costco, is they will allow you to wear a face shield which is fully open on the sides and bottom.  WalMart, Lowes (and in our area Publix, Kroger and Aldis) all have signs up however, I've never worn a mask once.  If I was asked to leave, I would, but no one (including managers that have said hello when I've walked by) has ever said a word.  I think most companies put the signs up, because they felt pressured to do so...not because they believe it makes a difference.  Of course, I don't make a habit of standing in someone else's personal space or licking random strangers and while I haven't been sick in years, I've never been one to leave the house and infect others if I don't feel well. 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

25 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

 Masks were made for the large stuff, not the small things like a virus.

They don't stop the virus, they stop the water droplet the virus travels on when someone sneezes or coughs. Just like a dust particle.  

PS: I am not a proponent of masks.. 

 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

5 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

They don't stop the virus, they stop the water droplet the virus travels on when someone sneezes or coughs. Just like a dust particle.  

PS: I am not a proponent of masks.. 

 

Agreed, which is why I am a huge proponent of covering ones mouth when you sneeze or cough... especially with a napkin or hankie.   While I understand that not everyone has learned this common courtesy, just one look around any store and you'll see that not everyone has learned how to properly wear a mask.  Even to catch those droplets (which are heavy and have a good chance of falling before they get too far in the air. which means that someone needs to be pretty close to you in order to have those droplets land on them).  I do understand your point and I don't mean to or want to belabor the issue.  I appreciate you.  You and "grandma" have always been so sweet to me.  You are a blessing. 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

33 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

  I do understand your point and I don't mean to or want to belabor the issue.  I appreciate you.  You and "grandma" have always been so sweet to me.  You are a blessing. 

I just consider it a friendly discussion and thanks we've always enjoyed the times we've met up.  Hope you get to have another great summer trip this year. Those are always great memories, our kids (50,47 & 46) still talk about our travels. 

[caveat lector 181]

I'm not going to touch any of these hot topics. Just glad to see some familiar names. They helped make this place GREAT!

We have a fort tripped planned in the not too distant future. The kids are grown and it won't be the same, but am still,looking forward to it. This past weekend, I came across my official TCD spike with a handwritten note. My kids remembered that same trip Captain Lou stopping by the site to just say hi.  Those great memories cannot be taken from me. A special thank you to,you gentlemen and all the FF regulars that made trip planning fun.

CL

[ftwildernessguy 778]

We started camping at the Fort in the’80’s. Times change, people get older.  I had reservations for September which I must cancel due to a serious health issue.  I do hope to get there again next year but I don’t know how many more trips I have in me. Sad.

[Lou... 3,118]

8 hours ago, caveat lector said:

This past weekend, I came across my official TCD spike with a handwritten note. My kids remembered that same trip Captain Lou stopping by the site to just say hi.  Those great memories cannot be taken from me.

They sure are great memories. I met so many great folks during my hundreds of unannounced vists to the Fort. I've remained close to many of them.

I do remember the note Fred. Ahh the famous TCD FWRR spikes. Even though I handed out a lot of them at the Fort I think I still have some in my trunk. The best thing about the spikes is the story of how TCD hunted them down.