IRMA

[slices 16]

10 hours ago, Travisma said:

Supposedly I75 is slow going.  

I can see I75 from behind my father in laws condo, and you can see the traffic practically at a stand still going north.  Making sure we avoid it today.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

8 hours ago, DinDavie said:

There are a few people on this thread who must be biting their tongues reading some of these comments.  While I am no fan of our Governor he was told to suspend the tolls because they cause massive traffic jams during an evacuation.  Hurricane Andrew proved that.  If you try to evacuate a metropolitan area just prior to a hurricane you are planning for a disaster to happen.  Today it took a friend of mine 6 hours to drive from Homestead to Palm Beach County.  It should have taken two.  The Florida Turnpike is now impassible at certain times of the day.  You encourage people to evacuate early so that they can go to friends and family outside of the hurricane zone.  Plains and trains leaving south florida are now at capacity.  You can't get a ticket for love nor money.  The Dade States attorney is now investigating the airlines for price gouging. No one in their right mind would allow a loved one to go to a hurricane shelter.  With no electricity and running water the restrooms become open sewage pits.  While some now have electric generators many still do not.  No A/C in a gym with several hundred people is not to be believed.  I also policed Dade County during Hurricane Andrew.  As  fotofx steve can attest, the actual storm will not be the worst part; its the months and years it will take to get things back to normal if that is possible.  Courtesy and compassion will be the best tools you can have in the months ahead.  The lastest hurricane advisory has the size of the hurricane being much wider than the Florida peninsula.  Perhaps we should all be concerned.  

Agreed.

While I do not live in Florida, I'm another who agrees that officials have not overacted.  The weather channel has been very good about stated that they cannot guarantee the strength of the storm when it hits Florida, but they do know that (unless God chooses to move it out to sea) it will hit and it will be strong.  How strong, they are not sure.  But getting out early is the better bet.  The more time that passes, the worse the roads will get.  The more time that passes, the harder it will be to leave the area and find a safer place to be.  Simply not worth the risk.

15 hours ago, ThemeParkCommando said:

 I know that the people who can afford it,  need to get on the move 3 or 4 days ahead of the storm.   I've seen the state evacuate to Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina.  For those with less money, they need to get up to Orlando / Ocala / Jacksonville and into a rated storm shelter or well built hotel,   or if they cannot afford to move, they need to find a place further in from the coast to evacuate to, to not get caught in the storm surge,  or to get to a higher rated building for shelter.    

Another reason I feel the early warnings were a good idea.  Those that have money, typically find a way.  Those that do not, have to really work at it and that could take several days.

Irma is not a friendly gal; she needs to move out to sea and go away  Praying.

[fotofx....Steve 34]

8 hours ago, DinDavie said:

As  fotofx steve can attest, the actual storm will not be the worst part; its the months and years it will take to get things back to normal if that is possible.  Courtesy and compassion will be the best tools you can have in the months ahead.  The lastest hurricane advisory has the size of the hurricane being much wider than the Florida peninsula.  Perhaps we should all be concerned.  

As we have learned in the past and recently with Harvey, calling for evacuations is a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't decision.

Quite honestly, it is a roll of the dice where this thing is going. Most deaths and injuries from a storm come AFTER the storm. If you move a large number of people to another area, there is no guarantee that area will not be affected. You would have to move much farther North.

Many people in South Florida live paycheck to paycheck. Quite honestly they can not afford the gas to go anywhere and I can tell you in the last few days it was nearly impossible to get. If you are not in a coastal area and you are in a building that is well built and shuttered you are better off staying there. Do not get out to survey the damage (Kind of like looping but on a larger scale) until the utility company has been through the area to make the downed lines safe.

After Andrew it was apparent in the Homestead, Florida City area that the wood framed homes did not fare well. Many were CBS block first floor and stick second floor. After the storm the only had a first floor and no roof. There was also an issue with substandard building code which has since been updated to what has become the model code for Florida. Unfortunately with all of the improvements that have been made since Andrew, one thing that is far worse is traffic. For obvious reasons you have to evacuate the Florida Keys. Our roads just can not support everyone leaving at the same time. With that added traffic and no fuel it is already gridlock.

It is a delicate balance deciding who to evacuate and who should shelter in place. At best it is a crap shoot when you have to do it days before you actually know where the storm is going.

[Travisma 1,317]

2 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

Agreed.

While I do not live in Florida, I'm another who agrees that officials have not overacted.  The weather channel has been very good about stated that they cannot guarantee the strength of the storm when it hits Florida, but they do know that (unless God chooses to move it out to sea) it will hit and it will be strong.  How strong, they are not sure.  But getting out early is the better bet.  The more time that passes, the worse the roads will get.  The more time that passes, the harder it will be to leave the area and find a safer place to be.  Simply not worth the risk.

Another reason I feel the early warnings were a good idea.  Those that have money, typically find a way.  Those that do not, have to really work at it and that could take several days.

Irma is not a friendly gal; she needs to move out to sea and go away  Praying.

And many people that possibly can afford to leave early can't because of jobs.

Can you imagine how much worse it would be if everything... stores, banks, government, gas stations... all shut down 3 or 4 days ahead of a possible storm path?

It's bad enough right now over here in the Tampa area and we won't see anything until Sunday at the earliest, and if the predicted path holds, it'll be wind gusts and some rain.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Just now, Travisma said:

And many people that possibly can afford to leave early can't because of jobs.

Can you imagine how much worse it would be if everything... stores, banks, government, gas stations... all shut down 3 or 4 days ahead of a possible storm path?

It's bad enough right now over here in the Tampa area and we won't see anything until Sunday at the earliest, and if the predicted path holds, it'll be wind gusts and some rain.

That's a good point.  It's definitely a tough situation.  No guarantees, no matter how you look at it.

[DinDavie 37]

The only thing you can control in this life is your attitude.  I am assuming that my motor home will not be in condition to go to the Fort on October 9-20th.  I will let this group know of my cancellation as soon as I can get out to the storage lot after the storm.  I am also hoping the damage is enough to total the unit so I can buy a new one.  Either way its a win-win for someone. 

[Beckers 1,136]

20 hours ago, Travisma said:

If it hangs on the shoreline, you may be getting more than us!

We've considered that and yesterday went to sam's club and made sure we are stocked up on everything. 

[Beckers 1,136]

Brian And I were talking about evacuations last night. You want to leave early so you are safe/try and beat traffic but you still have to work. So then what do you do??? I can't imagine employers are to thrilled with hurricanes.

[Travisma 1,317]

1 minute ago, Beckers said:

We've considered that and yesterday went to sam's club and made sure we are stocked up on everything. 

Current forecast shows it going inland by the GA SC border

[Travisma 1,317]

18 minutes ago, Beckers said:

Brian And I were talking about evacuations last night. You want to leave early so you are safe/try and beat traffic but you still have to work. So then what do you do??? I can't imagine employers are to thrilled with hurricanes.

Yup, most business aren't going to close until there is a mandatory evacuation, then a lot will still try to stay open because they are "essential".

Can you imagine every fast food place closing down 3 or 4 days ahead of a storm to let their employees evacuate?

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

55 minutes ago, fotofx....Steve said:

As we have learned in the past and recently with Harvey, calling for evacuations is a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't decision.

Quite honestly, it is a roll of the dice where this thing is going. Most deaths and injuries from a storm come AFTER the storm. If you move a large number of people to another area, there is no guarantee that area will not be affected. You would have to move much farther North.

Many people in South Florida live paycheck to paycheck. Quite honestly they can not afford the gas to go anywhere and I can tell you in the last few days it was nearly impossible to get. If you are not in a coastal area and you are in a building that is well built and shuttered you are better off staying there. Do not get out to survey the damage (Kind of like looping but on a larger scale) until the utility company has been through the area to make the downed lines safe.

After Andrew it was apparent in the Homestead, Florida City area that the wood framed homes did not fare well. Many were CBS block first floor and stick second floor. After the storm the only had a first floor and no roof. There was also an issue with substandard building code which has since been updated to what has become the model code for Florida. Unfortunately with all of the improvements that have been made since Andrew, one thing that is far worse is traffic. For obvious reasons you have to evacuate the Florida Keys. Our roads just can not support everyone leaving at the same time. With that added traffic and no fuel it is already gridlock.

It is a delicate balance deciding who to evacuate and who should shelter in place. At best it is a crap shoot when you have to do it days before you actually know where the storm is going.

Excellent post.

Those who are praising the officials don't understand that our idiot Governor declared a state of emergency for the entire state two days ago.  The idiots who run our schools have followed suit, and have overreacted by closing schools today and tomorrow in areas that will not even feel a breeze from this storm until Sunday at the earliest.  What are parents who work supposed to do about daycare?  Are we all supposed to drive north?  Where?  And where are we supposed to get gas?  All of the gas stations around me are out of gas. Will there be gas for us to drive back to our homes that are not damaged in any way because the storm isn't going to impact 90% of the state?  All of the stores around me are out of water.  Those resources would have been of great use to the first responders who will need to get to the areas that actually are affected.

Sheer and utter stupidity.

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

3 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Excellent post.

Those who are praising the officials don't understand that our idiot Governor declared a state of emergency for the entire state two days ago.  The idiots who run our schools have followed suit, and have overreacted by closing schools today and tomorrow in areas that will not even feel a breeze from this storm until Sunday at the earliest.  What are parents who work supposed to do about daycare?  Are we all supposed to drive north?  Where?  And where are we supposed to get gas?  All of the gas stations around me are out of gas. Will there be gas for us to drive back to our homes that are not damaged in any way because the storm isn't going to impact 90% of the state?  All of the stores around me are out of water.  Those resources would have been of great use to the first responders who will need to get to the areas that actually are affected.

Sheer and utter stupidity.

TCD

I think he did it so early so

1: He can show he's a caring guvner and doesn't want bad press like the Mayor of Houston is getting.

2: He's trying to make sure we get some sort of federal aid.

3: He's showboating.

 

Yes it's a bad storm, yes areas will need to evacuate, but like you said, it was crazy to include the entire state so far out.

The Keys and S FL yes because just about any path was going to affect them one way or another.

The other parts of the state should've been called when the path was a little better defined.

Yes people need to be warned over and over before it sinks in, but I think so close after Harvey caused people to over react. 

On co-worker saw a person with a shopping cart overflowing with bottled water, she said it was probably enough to support a dozen people for a week.

 

But like Steve said you're damned if you do...

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

23 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Excellent post.

Those who are praising the officials don't understand that our idiot Governor declared a state of emergency for the entire state two days ago.  The idiots who run our schools have followed suit, and have overreacted by closing schools today and tomorrow in areas that will not even feel a breeze from this storm until Sunday at the earliest.  What are parents who work supposed to do about daycare?  Are we all supposed to drive north?  Where?  And where are we supposed to get gas?  All of the gas stations around me are out of gas. Will there be gas for us to drive back to our homes that are not damaged in any way because the storm isn't going to impact 90% of the state?  All of the stores around me are out of water.  Those resources would have been of great use to the first responders who will need to get to the areas that actually are affected.

Sheer and utter stupidity.

TCD

Alabama Gov. Ivey issued a statewide state of emergency after Harvey hit solely to prevent price gouging on gas. There are some benefits to issuing one early.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

11 minutes ago, Travisma said:

I think he did it so early so

1: He can show he's a caring guvner and doesn't want bad press like the Mayor of Houston is getting.

2: He's trying to make sure we get some sort of federal aid.

3: He's showboating.

 

Yes it's a bad storm, yes areas will need to evacuate, but like you said, it was crazy to include the entire state so far out.

The Keys and S FL yes because just about any path was going to affect them one way or another.

The other parts of the state should've been called when the path was a little better defined.

Yes people need to be warned over and over before it sinks in, but I think so close after Harvey caused people to over react. 

On co-worker saw a person with a shopping cart overflowing with bottled water, she said it was probably enough to support a dozen people for a week.

 

But like Steve said you're damned if you do...

Great post.

The only part I disagree with is that you're damned if you do.

How about some friggin' leadership?

Why not have gas and essential shipments lined up to replace the foreseeable shortages caused by prematurely declaring an emergency?

Why not have properly equipped and adequate shelters in place for folks who need them?

Instead, we have no gas, no food, and gridlock on the only roads out of the state.  And 90% of the idiots on 75 don't need to be there today.

in the meantime, the folks who actually need to evacuate don't have the resources they need.  And there will be prolonged shortages of essentials for the areas that ultimately are damaged.

TCD

 

[Travisma 1,317]

1 minute ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Great post.

The only part I disagree with is that you're damned if you do.

How about some friggin' leadership?

Why not have gas and essential shipments lined up to replace the foreseeable shortages caused by prematurely declaring an emergency?

Why not have properly equipped and adequate shelters in place for folks who need them?

Instead, we have no gas, no food, and gridlock on the only roads out of the state.  And 90% of the idiots on 75 don't need to be there today.

in the meantime, the folks who actually need to evacuate don't have the resources they need.  And there will be prolonged shortages of essentials for the areas that ultimately are damaged.

TCD

 

In all honesty  based on past years experiences with hurricanes, the stores and gas stations probably thought they were adequately stocked.

I think no pun intended, this has become a perfect storm scenario.

With Harvey's destruction being so fresh in everyone's mind, the dire warnings from government officials that this is not a storm to be pooh poohed at, and the media circus this has become with their constant "The biggest storm to ever form in the Atlantic" messages, people have reacted much more than past years, causing hoarding and shortages, and even asinine decisions like standing in line to fill water bottles up at a machine when you can do it at home.

[Beckers 1,136]

53 minutes ago, Travisma said:

Current forecast shows it going inland by the GA SC border

Good thing NJ is still a ways north. 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

13 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Great post.

The only part I disagree with is that you're damned if you do.

How about some friggin' leadership?

Why not have gas and essential shipments lined up to replace the foreseeable shortages caused by prematurely declaring an emergency?

Why not have properly equipped and adequate shelters in place for folks who need them?

Instead, we have no gas, no food, and gridlock on the only roads out of the state.  And 90% of the idiots on 75 don't need to be there today.

in the meantime, the folks who actually need to evacuate don't have the resources they need.  And there will be prolonged shortages of essentials for the areas that ultimately are damaged.

TCD

 

You guys must be getting different news reports then the rest of the country.  

 

Your governor was on all the news stations and said.

1.  They are sending fuel and essentials to replace shortages and are working with  The federal government and businesses to have  fuel and supplies  strategically located around the state for after the storm.  

 

2.   He also said they are setting up shelters with supplies for those people who need to shelter in place. 

 

So it sounds to me like the governor is doing what you're saying he should be doing.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

4 minutes ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

You guys must be getting different news reports then the rest of the country.  

 

Your governor was on all the news stations and said.

1.  They are sending fuel and essentials to replace shortages and are working with  The federal government and businesses to have  fuel and supplies  strategically located around the state for after the storm.  

 

2.   He also said they are setting up shelters with supplies for those people who need to shelter in place. 

 

So it sounds to me like the governor is doing what you're saying he should be doing.

Uh, you are his target voter (if you lived here)

He hasn't done squat.

The gas stations all around me are out of gas.

There isn't a bottle of water to be had in any of the stores.

Where are these supplies?

Where are there shelters?

He's a liar (just like his idol in Washington)

But mostly he's an idiot.

TCD

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

1 minute ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Uh, you are his target voter.

He hasn't done squat.

The gas stations all around me are out of gas.

There isn't a bottle of water to be had in any of the stores.

Where are these supplies?

Where are there shelters?

He's a liar (just like his idol in Washington)

But mostly he's an idiot.

TCD

 What are you talking about? "I'm his Target voter? I don't give a rats arse who the governor of Florida is.    And I don't live there to vote for him.    We can all see you don't like him but could we please keep this non-partisan.   

We are all concerned for the safety of the people in Florida. And hope the government does their best to help those who need it. 

[fotofx....Steve 34]

A big problem also with evacuations as mentioned earlier is that someone has to work at the gas stations, banks, propane filling stations, Home Depot, Publix, etc.

We do not realize how much we rely on others in our day to day lives. If everyone was selfish and just ran for the hills to save themselves, what shape would we really be in?

 

Hello.... Hello.... 911... Is anybody there?????????

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

12 minutes ago, fotofx....Steve said:

A big problem also with evacuations as mentioned earlier is that someone has to work at the gas stations, banks, propane filling stations, Home Depot, Publix, etc.

We do not realize how much we rely on others in our day to day lives. If everyone was selfish and just ran for the hills to save themselves, what shape would we really be in?

 

Hello.... Hello.... 911... Is anybody there?????????

Agreed.    Of course essential personnel should stay as long as it's safe.  

But there are lots of non essential people such as retirees that could leave and imho should.    I've never lived thru a hurricane and hopefully I never will.  But I do live in tornado alley and we deal with severe ice storms every few years. So I know what it's like to go thru a natural disaster were people are clearing the grocery store shelves and gas stations are running out of fuel.   It sucks!!!    I just pray for all people who are in the path of this massive storm. And I pray that God changes its course and sends it out to sea. 

Be safe and God bless!

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

16 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Uh, you are his target voter (if you lived here)

He hasn't done squat.

The gas stations all around me are out of gas.

There isn't a bottle of water to be had in any of the stores.

Where are these supplies?

Where are there shelters?

He's a liar (just like his idol in Washington)

But mostly he's an idiot.

TCD

I don't know the man and have not followed his career or time there in Florida however, I cannot imagine that the job of governing millions is easy.  I can't imagine that governing a state, while anticipating a potentially catastrophic event, is one that you get a whole heck of lot of training on.  You cannot control the actions of others, no matter how hard you may try, you cannot control how those in your state will react, no matter how many projections are made.  If you think that it's ridiculous that the gas stations are out of gas and the stores have no water, I trust that you've already gassed up and are well stocked just in case the storm does come your way.  I pray it does not.

Those (citizens) that have to stay, have to stay.  But if we lived there and could go, we would go.  

Is he an idiot?  Maybe, I have no idea.  And while he may, in fact, be covering his butt in an attempt to secure a reelection, it's also possible that he's just trying to figure out the best way to save lives. 

But, the job is always open... make a run for it.  Handle the next major storm, differently. 

Until then, I'll continue to pray that the storm pushes out to sea and that lives and property are spared. 

 

 

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

Shortages can be blamed on modern day supply chain management. Everyone is practicing "just in time inventory" these days to avoid paying taxes on floor stocked inventory. Supply chain managers have it down to a science when demand follows normal conditions. Items arrive in the back and are sent right out of the door. When a blip in demand happens the system fails. They can't reroute and keep up. Our warehouse at work is virtually empty these days. We order and use....very little stocking going on. It is maddening.

[ThemeParkCommando 81]

51 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Uh, you are his target voter (if you lived here)

He hasn't done squat.

The gas stations all around me are out of gas.

There isn't a bottle of water to be had in any of the stores.

Where are these supplies?

Where are there shelters?

He's a liar (just like his idol in Washington)

But mostly he's an idiot.

TCD

The gas stations are out of gas because there is no way to resupply all of the stations simultaneously, and as soon as one station gets gas, the populace swarm descends on it and empties it within an hour.  Trust me, I've been living with this all last week here in San Antonio.  There is PLENTY of gas after Harvey,  the problem is that there is no magical way to distribute it.   Texas government is doing it's best,  diverting multiple gas hauler trucks in this area trying to allay the issue, but it still took a full week for the panic to stop, and we didn't even get hit by the storm.  Houston actually had more open fuel stations than San Antonio last week.  No politician or government agency can adequately maintain infrastructure, once the populace panics.

I'm certain that Florida is now in the same boat.  The gas is sitting in large silo's in refinery yards,  waiting for the distribution trucks to fill and go.  Those trucks have to sit in line to get their gas loaded,  just like the population does at the gas stations.  People are unreasonable when it comes to buying , and many will take more than their fair share.   Some gas is almost certainly earmarked for hurricane relief efforts, AFTER the hurricane passes through, so that gas will not be available for sale to the general public.

I'm positive the state of Florida has stockpiled huge amounts of bottled water in warehouses all through the state, but these stockpiles are not for sale,  they are for use during and after the storm by shelters, emergency relief agencies and first responders.

Broward county shelters are opening today, according to CNN.   But getting people to the shelters is still a logistical nightmare.  Especially low income elderly ( which I know you have many of in FL), and the truly poor who have no transportation.  

I'm sure your politician is a liar and an idiot,  but I'm also sure he isn't the only one responsible for hurricane preparedness in the state.   I believe Florida has a LOT of prepared shelters and infrastructure. (ETA:  Just not enough to handle the entire population that needs it.  That is a given,  even with the best prepared plans, there is never enough.)

 

[fotofx....Steve 34]

That is really the issue, almost everyone except retirees are essential to someone. As far as evacuating the elderly or retired, many of them ARE dependent on someone who would have to evacuate with them. I have several employees with elderly parents that have already had to leave because their parents live in a condo on the beach and can not leave without assistance.

Florida, especially South Florida has a extremely high number of retirees that are not as mobile as many of us fiends.