River Country

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

2 hours ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

I agree with DIT's map. I have wondered about this since the plans were first leaked years ago. I think they're going to use the current WL entrance and the existing road that DIT marked in Yellow. They have a similar situation at Animal Kingdom Lodge, where they use one guard shack for both the original lodge and the newer DVC. That set up would also allow them to combine bus routes, which they will want to do to save costs. 

TCD

I agree. The purple route would cost way more especially if wetlands are in there. They could branch off and make a separate road near the north end of the former STOL port that would tie into the existing route marked in yellow.

[LONE-STAR 370]

Yes I agree I can't see them spending the money for purple. That road is probably over a mile and last I heard it's about a million bucks a mile give or take.

[BuckeyeFortFan 35]

This thing is big.  Grand Floridian big if you go by number of rooms, and they may not all be conventional rooms.  The article alludes to nature inspired "fun and surprising accommodation types that families will find irresistible."  What does that mean?  Teepees?  Yurts?  Tree houses?  They will follow the current model and stick some high dollar rooms along the lake shore for sure.  Those things take up a lot of space compared to large boxes of rooms stacked 7 or 8 stories high.  Of course this will require all of the space eating amenities that the other resorts have, none of which are currently in place like a huge parking lot, security gates, bus stops, delivery access, pool(s), restaurants, valet....the list goes on. 

We know they are moving the TCD ranch, supposedly to the other side of West Wilderness Road but I question if that is far enough.  We wouldn't want the inner workings of a horse barn seen from a $600 a night hotel room.

Pioneer Hall is probably the oldest building on property.  The back side is a jumbled mess, currently blocked from view from the ground by trees and a big brown fence.  I think they will have the same issue with visibility from a 7th floor room as with the barn and predict Pioneer Hall is razed and HDDR moved into a new theater in the resort.  I don't know if Trails End would get resurrected.

Both of these issues could be avoided by pushing the resort towards WL, but they are definitely moving the barn AND I bet they do not build a separate marina for the new resort, allowing for a shared boat for FW and the new resort from the current dock.  This resort will come right up to Clementine,s Beach, if it doesn't completely absorb it, so that the marina is not too far of a distance for those guests.  This leads me to think that any non-pedestrian access for FW guests will stop at Big Pine Road, and if they continue to allow golf carts, cart parking for the marina will be at the corner of Big Pine and Fort Wilderness Trail.  Being the pessimist I am, I wonder If we even lose the 100 loop. 

As to road access, I agree that there is no chance they will access through the campground for the new resorts guests....but deliveries might.  I think access will be along the yellow route with a gate just past where Frontier Way dead ends at West Wilderness Road.

Long story short.....I think impact on FW is going to be significant and may be the final nail in the coffin of the FW that we know.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

1 hour ago, BuckeyeFortFan said:

This thing is big.  Grand Floridian big if you go by number of rooms, and they may not all be conventional rooms.  The article alludes to nature inspired "fun and surprising accommodation types that families will find irresistible."  What does that mean?  Teepees?  Yurts?  Tree houses?  They will follow the current model and stick some high dollar rooms along the lake shore for sure.  Those things take up a lot of space compared to large boxes of rooms stacked 7 or 8 stories high.  Of course this will require all of the space eating amenities that the other resorts have, none of which are currently in place like a huge parking lot, security gates, bus stops, delivery access, pool(s), restaurants, valet....the list goes on. 

We know they are moving the TCD ranch, supposedly to the other side of West Wilderness Road but I question if that is far enough.  We wouldn't want the inner workings of a horse barn seen from a $600 a night hotel room.

Pioneer Hall is probably the oldest building on property.  The back side is a jumbled mess, currently blocked from view from the ground by trees and a big brown fence.  I think they will have the same issue with visibility from a 7th floor room as with the barn and predict Pioneer Hall is razed and HDDR moved into a new theater in the resort.  I don't know if Trails End would get resurrected.

Both of these issues could be avoided by pushing the resort towards WL, but they are definitely moving the barn AND I bet they do not build a separate marina for the new resort, allowing for a shared boat for FW and the new resort from the current dock.  This resort will come right up to Clementine,s Beach, if it doesn't completely absorb it, so that the marina is not too far of a distance for those guests.  This leads me to think that any non-pedestrian access for FW guests will stop at Big Pine Road, and if they continue to allow golf carts, cart parking for the marina will be at the corner of Big Pine and Fort Wilderness Trail.  Being the pessimist I am, I wonder If we even lose the 100 loop. 

As to road access, I agree that there is no chance they will access through the campground for the new resorts guests....but deliveries might.  I think access will be along the yellow route with a gate just past where Frontier Way dead ends at West Wilderness Road.

Long story short.....I think impact on FW is going to be significant and may be the final nail in the coffin of the FW that we know.

Sadly...you’re probably spot on 😞

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

1 hour ago, BuckeyeFortFan said:

We know they are moving the TCD ranch, supposedly to the other side of West Wilderness Road 

First, it's great to see a post from you. 

Second, this is the first I've heard about the barn being located on West Wilderness Road. The original plan was to move almost everything to the Settlement. There were complete plans and an approved permit for the new barn at the Settlement, right down to a calliope display room. 

I know you have a source connected to the equine operations, so you may have just shared some news that hasn't been announced to the public. 

TCD

[BuckeyeFortFan 35]

Thanks TCD.  We've been busy but this new resort news has really sparked my fort interest.

Now that you mention it, I might be mistaken on the new barn location. Did you mean plans for the barn at the settlement or the outpost?  The settlement is at the Pioneer Hall end of the campground...right?  It would make sense to move it to the outpost since they already have buildings there and the settlement is getting crowded.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

22 minutes ago, BuckeyeFortFan said:

Thanks TCD.  We've been busy but this new resort news has really sparked my fort interest.

Now that you mention it, I might be mistaken on the new barn location. Did you mean plans for the barn at the settlement or the outpost?  The settlement is at the Pioneer Hall end of the campground...right?  It would make sense to move it to the outpost since they already have buildings there and the settlement is getting crowded.

TCD meant Outpost.  I think he just mistyped.  

[BuckeyeFortFan 35]

10 minutes ago, DaveInTN said:

TCD meant Outpost.  I think he just mistyped.  

What a noob.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

1 minute ago, BuckeyeFortFan said:

What a noob.

Next thing you know he'll be asking if the cabins are worth it, or should he stay at the Fort Wilderness Lodge.  

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

Just to recap for everyone, the old plans showed the following:

• Moving the TCD ranch to the outpost
• Moving the Backyard BBQ pavilion behind the Settlement Trading Post
• A large parking area where the TCD Ranch is now
• The new parking area had a large path along it towards Pioneer Hall
• An access road and utilities coming in along the road that connects to Wilderness Lodge
• The new resort had it's own marina

Now all that being said, that resort made it all the way through permitting, had 3d models made and they still didn't build it so all of the above info might not even apply anymore.

WBI

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

I still don't get why they don't build a resort like this on Seven Seas Lagoon instead of by Bay Lake, you could have monorail, boat and bus access and charge more money, not to mention better MK views.  If they killed the original wilderness theme why not build the Four Season wannabe over there?  And don't use the poor soils excuse, they'll be driving piles and doing wetland mitigation in this proposed location, they could certainly do it on Seven Seas Lagoon.

WBI

[DaveInTN 3,247]

20 minutes ago, WannaBeImagineer said:

I still don't get why they don't build a resort like this on Seven Seas Lagoon instead of by Bay Lake, you could have monorail, boat and bus access and charge more money, not to mention better MK views.  If they killed the original wilderness theme why not build the Four Season wannabe over there?  And don't use the poor soils excuse, they'll be driving piles and doing wetland mitigation in this proposed location, they could certainly do it on Seven Seas Lagoon.

WBI

Yes, you have to believe they will eventually build on the land originally earmarked for the Venetian Resort.  The story told about that property has always been that the land is too soft and would be very expensive to build on.  Ok....but there are huge skyscrapers built in swampy, filled in areas like lower Manhattan and they haven't sunk.  If Disney wants to build here, they will figure out how to make it work.  

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

1 hour ago, DaveInTN said:

TCD meant Outpost.  I think he just mistyped.  

 

1 hour ago, BuckeyeFortFan said:

What a noob.

LOL. I did mistype, but for some reason I make that mistake a lot. I've always thought the whole Settlement area was more like an outpost, so if I'm not thinking I often confuse the names. 

TCD

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

1 hour ago, DaveInTN said:

Next thing you know he'll be asking if the cabins are worth it, or should he stay at the Fort Wilderness Lodge.  

Fun fact- in the last two years I've stayed in the cabins and WL more than the campsites. Factoring in a CM discount, they're worth it to me. 

TCD

[Starbuc71 162]

Imho, the cabins are definitely not worth the cost for a family of 4 or below unless you have a CM discount or your sharing with another family.  I’m sure Disney knows this since the majority of the time, there are many empty cabins.  As far as other Disney resorts go, besides the value resorts, I can not afford them so I can’t comment if they are worth the price.  I will say, I know most of the rooms at the higher end resorts are your basic hotel room with upgrades like a new tv like every other resort in the world. The contemporary is a great example. I suppose with that resort, you are paying for the convenience of the location. For well over $500 a night, your paying for something.  Living close to WDW makes us locals look at things differently....I think.  I have friends up north who save all year for that magic vacation that may take 5-6 grand out of your wallet, so I guess it’s a deal for them.  I know at the moment since I’m trying to plan a once in a lifetime trip to Disneyland next year. I don’t think it’s going to happen due to price.  This is why I complain about the cost of the campsites now going so high. A once a year trip to the best campground in the country may seem ok to pay a high price, but to a local who wanted to get away from time to time to visit Disney on a budget is now gone and will never come back

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

25 minutes ago, Starbuc71 said:

Imho, the cabins are definitely not worth the cost for a family of 4 or below unless you have a CM discount or your sharing with another family.  

I think part of the "value" is in the fact you have a kitchen and can do whatever meals you want in house. Also I think they are more utilized than you think by families who fly in and don't rent a car, especially over peak holidays and Spring break. IIRC the Cabins are about the same as the Family Suites at AOA.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

3 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

Imho, the cabins are definitely not worth the cost for a family of 4 or below unless you have a CM discount or your sharing with another family.  

If you look at it  dispassionately, WDW isn’t worth the money period!

Who thinks a campsite is worth $180/ night at Christmas?  I can get a high end condo at a beautiful resort and watch the Epcot, and HS fireworks every night from my balcony for less money.  And be closer to Epcot, DS, and HS then when we stay the the Fort.   But yet we do both  we just returned from a week at Pop and had a blast.  And at Christmas we will do 8 nights in our condo and 5 nights at WDW.  We rented DVC points.  Which helps with the cost at those high end resorts.

people who want and love the “full” Disney experience will pay for it.   Others, like us, will adjust our vacation plans to meet our idea of value.  And others will choose not to go because there is no  perceived value for them.  

It’s all a matter of how individuals want to spend their vacation time and money.  

I do agree that Disney has pushed several people, especially locals, into the last category.  

There is also a group of people who just can’t afford to go anymore or at all.  And it’s sad because they won’t be able to bring their families to the Fort and WDW like their parents did for them.

[PghBob 31]

4 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

 I know at the moment since I’m trying to plan a once in a lifetime trip to Disneyland next year. I don’t think it’s going to happen due to price.

We have gone to Disneyland several times, most recently last July.  Mostly, we have stayed at a place called the Candy Cane Inn, about 2-3 blocks away on Harbor Blvd.  Given the name, we were reluctant to stay there the first time, but have liked enough to return several times.  They offer a pretty nice "free" breakfast to guests.  The have a free shuttle to the park and back, but it is easily walkable even for this old dude.  The Candy Cane is also a Disney "Good Neighbor", and they sell certain park tickets on-site.  It is a better value IMHO than staying on DL property.

Good luck with your trip planning.

[slices 16]

11 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

I think part of the "value" is in the fact you have a kitchen and can do whatever meals you want in house. Also I think they are more utilized than you think by families who fly in and don't rent a car, especially over peak holidays and Spring break. IIRC the Cabins are about the same as the Family Suites at AOA.

They are quite popular with people booking from the UK with the free dining offer. Comparable price to the AoA suites but classed as a moderate rather than a value so get them a better deal on the free dining offer, especially with the DVC resorts being initially excluded from the offer this year.

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

8 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

It’s all a matter of how individuals want to spend their vacation time and money.  

I do agree that Disney has pushed several people, especially locals, into the last category.  

Just left the FORT after visiting some Fiends and it is wall to wall cars as well as full campsites, with an awful lot of FL plates.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

3 hours ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

Just left the FORT after visiting some Fiends and it is wall to wall cars as well as full campsites, with an awful lot of FL plates.

Ok. I would expect to see lots of Florida tags in the biggest tourist city in the US.  Florida is the 3rd most populous state and the most populous state east of Texas.  

Orlando is the cheapest city in the Us to rent a car.   And don’t have a great public transportation system.   

When we rented Donnie’s 5er we had a rental car with a Florida plate  and his 5er has Florida plates   

 

The several people i spoke of are members of this site who have said so themselves.   And members of other Disney sites I’m on. 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

8 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

Orlando is the cheapest city in the Us to rent a car.   And don’t have a great public transportation system.   

When we rented Donnie’s 5er we had a rental car with a Florida plate  and his 5er has Florida plates   

These weren't rentals, unless somebody has a massive RV/TOW VEHICLE rental business. When we wintered at the FORT the locals came in mass on weekends especially.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

36 minutes ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

These weren't rentals, unless somebody has a massive RV/TOW VEHICLE rental business. When we wintered at the FORT the locals came in mass on weekends especially.

I’m not sure I’m getting your point. 

Are you saying the locals on this and other sites who have said that Disney price increases are keeping them away from the Fort are wrong?  

 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

45 minutes ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

These weren't rentals, unless somebody has a massive RV/TOW VEHICLE rental business. When we wintered at the FORT the locals came in mass on weekends especially.

Of course there are Floridians going to the Fort. The state has 20+ million people in it.  

How do you know all those sites were rented by locals?

 I don’t consider people from Miami, Fort Myers, Tallahassee or the panhandle locals. 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

1 hour ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

Are you saying the locals on this and other sites who have said that Disney price increases are keeping them away from the Fort are wrong?  

I'm saying they are the minority compared to others who live in the area. Spend 4 months there at a time like we did and you will see. Same cars, RV's and people weekend after weekend.