River Country

[shaffecv 12]

19 minutes ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

 We added two new spots at our mobile home park a few years back. We had to set meter bases for electricity, running water lines and sewer lines. With labor we probably spent $2000/ spot.  At 100+ dollars a night Disney would make their money back in no time.

Yes to Disney it's like Monopoly money.

I'm sure there's a pile of environmental impact studies and permits that would slow things down. And add to the cost.

But at FW the break even would come pretty fast.

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

22 minutes ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

 We added two new spots at our mobile home park a few years back. We had to set meter bases for electricity, running water lines and sewer lines. With labor we probably spent $2000/ spot.  At 100+ dollars a night Disney would make their money back in no time.

Except, building a new road with utilities, not including building the sites, is around $ 400 a linear foot.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

1 hour ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

Except, building a new road with utilities, not including building the sites, is around $ 400 a linear foot.

Ok. Let’s say the road is 400’ long.  

400’ X $400 =$160,000

Fort campsites are approx 25’ wide.   So on a 400’ road  you could get 32  campsites. 16 on each side of the road.

Or $5,000 per pad site  

And let’s assume each pad site costs $5,500 to build.   And a 1000sq ft bath house to accommodate 32 pad sites. Cost another $240,000.   Or $7,500/ pad site. 

It would cost disney $18,000/ pad site. At $100+ per night it would take Disney 180 days to recoup their investment. (Of course that’s not counting operating costs).   Even if you double the costs it still looks like a good way of using a bunch of swamp land you already own  

 

FYI

The National average Cost of a hotel room is over $190,000 to build. (Fixr.com)

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

1 hour ago, shaffecv said:

Yes to Disney it's like Monopoly money.

I'm sure there's a pile of environmental impact studies and permits that would slow things down. And add to the cost.

But at FW the break even would come pretty fast.

Agree X2

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

17 minutes ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

Ok. Let’s say the road is 400’ long.  

400’ X $400 =$160,000

Fort campsites are approx 25’ wide.   So on a 400’ road  you could get 32  campsites. 16 on each side of the road.

Or $5,000 per pad site  

And let’s assume each pad site costs $5,500 to build.   And a 1000sq ft bath house to accommodate 32 pad sites. Cost another $240,000.   Or $7,500/ pad site. 

It would cost disney $18,000/ pad site. At $100+ per night it would take Disney 180 days to recoup their investment. (Of course that’s not counting operating costs).   Even if you double the costs it still looks like a good way of using a bunch of swamp land you already own  

 

FYI

The National average Cost of a hotel room is over $190,000 to build. (Fixr.com)

From KOA...

Initial Development: 75 RV sites and 90 total sites required for start-up. Average Cost: $1,800,000 – $2,250,000* 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

I agree with Ray on one thing here... the wildcard for Disney is that they already own the land.  Land cost is the factor that makes the campground equation not work in many cases I've seen.  

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

5 minutes ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

From KOA...

Initial Development: 75 RV sites and 90 total sites required for start-up. Average Cost: $1,800,000 – $2,250,000* 

So my numbers are pretty close to KOAs. And their numbers include land, and franchise fees.  Their initial fee is $30,000. 

Disney already owns the land and they won’t have to pay initial franchise fees or annual franchise fees. 

[keith_h 420]

On 3/13/2018 at 5:22 PM, h2odivers...Ray said:

and/or converting our mobile home park into an RV park.

Will there be a Fort Fiends discount?

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

12 minutes ago, keith_h said:

Will there be a Fort Fiends discount?

Of course. And it includes free parking. 

Actually there is a big need for long term RV parks in our area.  Due to all the oil field and wind farm workers.   They come in for 4 to 6 to 12 months at a time.  And their companies pay their rent. so you know you will be paid  

Unfortunately we are having with all of the government regulations.    We already supply water and sewer to our residents.

but we would need to either add several new septic systems or a lagoon.   And drill a new water well.   And right now we don’t have the land to do that.   We need the farmer next door to sell us a few acres. 

[shaffecv 12]

There is still a lot of improvement they could do without taking any more land.

Add sewer to the tent sites. Our 25ft C Class could easily fit on most tent sites.

         We've only ever camped at the Fort the week after Thanksgiving but in all the years we've done so the tent loops look pretty lean. Probably due to the cooler conditions in late November.

The sites on the main road side in the 600 and 800 loops could be turned into "pull through" sites without a whole lot of interruption.

          Just open them up so you can pull into the site directly from the main road.

Add some sites along the sandy trail behind the 300 loop and make them "Ultra Lakeside sites"

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

10 minutes ago, shaffecv said:

Add sewer to the tent sites. Our 25ft C Class could easily fit on most tent sites. 

The sites on the main road side in the 600 and 800 loops could be turned into "pull through" sites without a whole lot of interruption.

          Just open them up so you can pull into the site directly from the main road.

 

Retrofitting tent sites would be very expensive.

They had pull thrus like that in 1200 and took them out for some reason.

 

[rtguy007 74]

1 hour ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

Retrofitting tent sites would be very expensive.

They had pull thrus like that in 1200 and took them out for some reason.

 

I am going to guess it may have been the sidewalk that runs behind of 1200 but that is a guess.

[bdm 47]

On 3/13/2018 at 1:40 PM, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

No, not going to happen. Why, when they can charge $600+ a night for rooms and can build multiple levels? It's the same reason that I don't think the Fort will ever be expanded. Hotel rooms take up less space. 

One thing Disney world has a abundance of is land.  The development and cost to build a hotel is much greater per unit than the campground.  Yes you can get more guests per sqr foot but the cost per sqr foot is much higher.

Also with much of the land around bay lake being "undesirable to build on" ie not stable for large buildings it makes scene to use that land for campgrounds.  

The biggest draw back to Disney expanding on camping vs expanding on hotel lodging is how much money the guests spend on items outside the room.  If you are staying in a room you are paying Disney for all your meals, campers usually eat at least one meal a day in their camper. 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

21 hours ago, rtguy007 said:

I am going to guess it may have been the sidewalk that runs behind of 1200 but that is a guess.

No, they were on the side towards 1100.

[LONE-STAR 370]

9 hours ago, bdm said:

One thing Disney world has a abundance of is land.  The development and cost to build a hotel is much greater per unit than the campground.  Yes you can get more guests per sqr foot but the cost per sqr foot is much higher.

Also with much of the land around bay lake being "undesirable to build on" ie not stable for large buildings it makes scene to use that land for campgrounds.  

The biggest draw back to Disney expanding on camping vs expanding on hotel lodging is how much money the guests spend on items outside the room.  If you are staying in a room you are paying Disney for all your meals, campers usually eat at least one meal a day in their camper. 

Been at Disney over a week. We have ate at the camper 1 time. 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

7 hours ago, LONE-STAR said:

Been at Disney over a week. 

I heard you spotted a TCD twin!

 TCD 

[bdm 47]

17 hours ago, LONE-STAR said:

Been at Disney over a week. We have ate at the camper 1 time. 

I'm the same way, we usually grab breakfast or evening snack at the camper.  But I think most eat a meal or two each day at camper where hotel visitors eat all meals out.

[Cortezcapt (Derek) 156]

20 hours ago, bdm said:

I'm the same way, we usually grab breakfast or evening snack at the camper.  But I think most eat a meal or two each day at camper where hotel visitors eat all meals out.

When we used to do road trips and stay in hotels we almost always had a cooler along with sandwich meat and snacks  to eat on the road but also at the hotel. 

 

I think it all comes down to how thrifty the people are or want to be. I'm sure some that camp at the Fort eat all their meals out sorta it's vacation why cook, while others might not buy anything from Disney to eat or drink. It's also probably the same for the hotels although I'm sure the hotels have far more that eat out. 

 

Also people with cars are probably more likely to go off property to eat if they are at a hotel or campground. 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

56 minutes ago, Cortezcapt (Derek) said:

When we used to do road trips and stay in hotels we almost always had a cooler along with sandwich meat and snacks  to eat on the road but also at the hotel. 

 

I think it all comes down to how thrifty the people are or want to be. I'm sure some that camp at the Fort eat all their meals out sorta it's vacation why cook, while others might not buy anything from Disney to eat or drink. It's also probably the same for the hotels although I'm sure the hotels have far more that eat out. 

 

Also people with cars are probably more likely to go off property to eat if they are at a hotel or campground. 

As kids mom always pack a special lunch for our road trips.  And we would always stop at rest areas or scenic spots for lunch   

Fried chicken and German potato salad was always a family favorite.   

I miss those trips. 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

58 minutes ago, Cortezcapt (Derek) said:

 

I think it all comes down to how thrifty the people are or want to be. I'm sure some that camp at the Fort eat all their meals out sorta it's vacation why cook, while others might not buy anything from Disney to eat or drink. It's also probably the same for the hotels although I'm sure the hotels have far more that eat out. 

 

Also people with cars are probably more likely to go off property to eat if they are at a hotel or campground. 

Agree

When we stay at a WDW Resort we always have bottled water, soda, beer, and snacks delivered to our hotel.  But almost all meals are eaten at a WDW restaurant. We rarely go off property. 

Even at our timeshare, with a full kitchen,  we eat out a lot. We usually eat breakfast in the room. Lunch at a restaurant,  which is our “big” meal of the day. And then dinner is a sandwich or something light at one of the resorts poolside bar & grill. 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

3 hours ago, Cortezcapt (Derek) said:

I think it all comes down to how thrifty the people are or want to be. 

This, or possibly they are very careful with what they eat.  We don't like to eat out a lot even on vacation, which is one reason we like the rv.  When at the Fort we probably average less than 1 meal out per day, maybe one every other day. 

[LONE-STAR 370]

On 3/16/2018 at 6:48 AM, Tri-Circle-D said:

I heard you spotted a TCD twin!

 TCD 

I did she was very nice. I know that's at least the second time we've spotted one of your daughters working at Disney with all the employees that Disney has it's just like what are the odds especially since I live in Texas.

[mmfancipher 31]

Just saw over at WDWMagic that danlb_2000 says:

A new SFWMD permit was filed today to clean an area for temporary to stock pile earth as part of project 89. This is quite a big area so I would assume there will be a good bit of wetlands filled in for this project.

 

 

 

[LONE-STAR 370]

4 hours ago, mmfancipher said:

Just saw over at WDWMagic that danlb_2000 says:

A new SFWMD permit was filed today to clean an area for temporary to stock pile earth as part of project 89. This is quite a big area so I would assume there will be a good bit of wetlands filled in for this project.

 

 

 

Cool keep us posted 

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

I just looked at the plans and read the engineering report, I don't see any relation to Project 89 which was the soil borings at the Fort.

This project is called Stolport Stockpile, its located next to the old runway and is going to be a 30 acre stockpile, no clue why or where the dirt is coming from.

I'm not sure if these links will work:

Engineering Report

http://apps.sfwmd.gov/entsb/docdownload?object_id=0900eeea8a588315

Plans

http://apps.sfwmd.gov/entsb/docdownload?object_id=0900eeea8a5882f9

 

WBI