River Country

[LONE-STAR 370]

5 hours ago, ImDownWithDisney said:

That's an extendable boom crane with a folding jib attachment. Looks like they are about to do some lifts.

I concur.

[mmfancipher 31]

Over on WDWMagic.com user danlb_2000 says:

Disney have filed a SFWMD permit today to do geotech boring for "project 89".

These borings are done to determine the soil structure in a area where they plan to build.

 

So maybe the DVC campground plans are coming back to life!  

 

 

 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

1 hour ago, mmfancipher said:

Over on WDWMagic.com user danlb_2000 says:

Disney have filed a SFWMD permit today to do geotech boring for "project 89".

These borings are done to determine the soil structure in a area where they plan to build.

 

So maybe the DVC campground plans are coming back to life!  

 

 

 

GDF posted about this development back on Tuesday morning, and there has already been much discussion on the topic on this thread: 

TCD

 

[mmfancipher 31]

Well, once again I'm a day late and a dollar short!

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

DVC campground??

I think I missed that discussion... can't DVC members already use points for the Fort?  Or, would this be a DVC member area only?

[keith_h 420]

1 hour ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

DVC campground??

I think I missed that discussion... can't DVC members already use points for the Fort?  Or, would this be a DVC member area only?

Not a campground but a full blown resort building on the old River Country site and backing up to the Settlement.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

8 minutes ago, keith_h said:

Not a campground but a full blown resort building on the old River Country site and backing up to the Settlement.

Hmmm... okay.

Pretty soon, all of WDW might just be DVC.  Kind-of like Costco... you have to buy a membership, to shop.  Have to have DVC, to stay.

[Travisma 1,317]

15 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

Hmmm... okay.

Pretty soon, all of WDW might just be DVC.  Kind-of like Costco... you have to buy a membership, to shop.  Have to have DVC, to stay.

Well at membership warehouses, you can still get in and shop, but they add an upcharge when you check out. 

Usually 5 to 10 % over the listed price.

So maybe that's how Disney will be in the future.  Not a DVC member, then add 20% to your bill.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

42 minutes ago, Travisma said:

Well at membership warehouses, you can still get in and shop, but they add an upcharge when you check out. 

Usually 5 to 10 % over the listed price.

So maybe that's how Disney will be in the future.  Not a DVC member, then add 20% to your bill.

Seems like it might be going that way... only time will tell.

[PghBob 31]

To answer the question about DVC points and the Fort, yes you can use points only if there is availability.  We have done so only a few times.  Most times, we cannot.  There is a game played by the management of the Fort and DVC.  When you talk to the Fort, they have no idea of DVC availability, and cannot tell you WHO to call, only the generic call DVC.  When you call DVC, they cannot provide you with any information on site availability most of the time.  You have to give DVC specific dates and then they may check.  You cannot find out in advance WHEN there may be availability, for example, you cannot ask them "is there any availability in September?"  It is a real pain.  Yet, we all know that there is someone, somewhere, that has this information, yet you cannot get the details.  Frankly, this style of running things is the primary reason that we have not added on more points to what we have.  Disney needs show us that they can be more efficient with this DVC/Fort operation before we buy anything else.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

4 hours ago, PghBob said:

To answer the question about DVC points and the Fort, yes you can use points only if there is availability.  We have done so only a few times.  Most times, we cannot.  There is a game played by the management of the Fort and DVC.  When you talk to the Fort, they have no idea of DVC availability, and cannot tell you WHO to call, only the generic call DVC.  When you call DVC, they cannot provide you with any information on site availability most of the time.  You have to give DVC specific dates and then they may check.  You cannot find out in advance WHEN there may be availability, for example, you cannot ask them "is there any availability in September?"  It is a real pain.  Yet, we all know that there is someone, somewhere, that has this information, yet you cannot get the details.  Frankly, this style of running things is the primary reason that we have not added on more points to what we have.  Disney needs show us that they can be more efficient with this DVC/Fort operation before we buy anything else.

Frustrating, no question....

[shaffecv 12]

13 hours ago, PghBob said:

To answer the question about DVC points and the Fort, yes you can use points only if there is availability.  We have done so only a few times.  Most times, we cannot.  There is a game played by the management of the Fort and DVC.  When you talk to the Fort, they have no idea of DVC availability, and cannot tell you WHO to call, only the generic call DVC.  When you call DVC, they cannot provide you with any information on site availability most of the time.  You have to give DVC specific dates and then they may check.  You cannot find out in advance WHEN there may be availability, for example, you cannot ask them "is there any availability in September?"  It is a real pain.  Yet, we all know that there is someone, somewhere, that has this information, yet you cannot get the details.  Frankly, this style of running things is the primary reason that we have not added on more points to what we have.  Disney needs show us that they can be more efficient with this DVC/Fort operation before we buy anything else.

That was one of the questions I had when we did a DVC tour. Was told "no problem" to use points toward the Fort, but friends who are DVC members told us different after trying.

It was a real pain for them to use DVC points at the Fort.

[PghBob 31]

9 hours ago, shaffecv said:

That was one of the questions I had when we did a DVC tour. Was told "no problem" to use points toward the Fort, but friends who are DVC members told us different after trying.

It was a real pain for them to use DVC points at the Fort.

You were wise to check with DVC members you know.  There is a HUGE problem trying to use points at the Fort.  Your proposed stay must match up with their, unknown to you, availability.  You cannot book or determine online availability either, like you can for a cash paid stay.  I would not recommend DVC for anyone who is thinking in terms of using their points mostly at the Fort.

[bdm 47]

On the topic of a DVC camp ground.

If done right, it could be really nice.  I've stayed at a few of the club level suites in the Polly, and GF.  Both are really really nice, and recently we stayed at a Wilderness Lodge Copper Creak cabin (one bedroom).

Picture this.  Triple the space between you and the next site,  extra deep sites, maybe twice as deep.  Each site backs up to the lake, or around the cove that was River Country.  A DVC club room with private bathrooms, with showers.  Activity center and common room with the normal club level amenities.  Maybe each site comes with its own golf cart.

Its not for everyone, prob not for me.  But if you add enough value to whatever the cost is there will be a line of people waiting to pay for it.

[mmfancipher 31]

Well, marni1971 over at wdwmagic.com just said:

"It’s a resort. Should be greenlit. Design similar to the previous one."

Marni1971 knows his stuff too.

 

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

On 3/9/2018 at 9:33 AM, twiceblessed....nacole said:

DVC campground??

I think I missed that discussion... can't DVC members already use points for the Fort?  Or, would this be a DVC member area only?

No, not going to happen. Why, when they can charge $600+ a night for rooms and can build multiple levels? It's the same reason that I don't think the Fort will ever be expanded. Hotel rooms take up less space. 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

17 minutes ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

No, not going to happen. Why, when they can charge $600+ a night for rooms and can build multiple levels? It's the same reason that I don't think the Fort will ever be expanded. Hotel rooms take up less space. 

It also doesn't fit into any of Disney's boxes.  They are an entertainment, theme park and resort company (both cash and ownership).  They don't have any particular expertise running campgrounds, and I doubt they care to go in that direction as there's really no reason to develop the expertise and replicate it elsewhere.  If the Fort hadn't been developed at the outset, I don't think there is any compelling reason that Disney would ever develop a campground now.  Too few rentable units on too much land, as Kelly pointed out.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

3 hours ago, DaveInTN said:

They don't have any particular expertise running campgrounds, and I doubt they care to go in that direction as there's really no reason to develop the expertise and replicate it elsewhere.  If the Fort hadn't been developed at the outset, I don't think there is any compelling reason that Disney would ever develop a campground now.  Too few rentable units on too much land, as Kelly pointed out.

I have respectfully disagree. 

Disney has been running an RV park for 40+ years I believe

As you know we own some rental properties and a mobile home park  

And we have been looking at adding a small hotel to our properties and/or converting our mobile home park into an RV park.    And I can tell the ROI is a lot better on a RV park  

Like most businesses labor is the biggest expense, after debt service.  And there is a lot less labor involved in running an RV park.  One guy and a hose can wash down and RV site in five minutes. 

Without getting into to much detail. A hotel room that is rented for a week has to have 6 stay over cleanings and one check out cleaning. 

A RV site that is rented for a week only needs a check out cleaning. 

A branded hotel needs a “remodel” every 5-7 years. And that includes rooms and public areas.   Mostly the soft goods in the rooms. 

An RV park needs to upgrade its public spaces every 6-8 years. 

The cost of building a hotel compared to the cost of building a RV park...well let’s just say it’s not even in the same ball park.

And the maintenance and up keep of a hotel is considerably higher than an RV park.   

 Of course I don’t have a way of factoring in the very expensive real estate that the fort sits on. But in my humble opinion if Disney was to build a new RV resort it would not be on bay lake.

It would be built far from any park or entertainment venue.

And it would turn a tidy profit for Disney

[DaveInTN 3,247]

12 minutes ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

I have respectfully disagree. 

Disney has been running an RV park for 40+ years I believe

As you know we own some rental properties and a mobile home park  

And we have been looking at adding a small hotel to our properties and/or converting our mobile home park into an RV park.    And I can tell the ROI is a lot better on a RV park  

Like most businesses labor is the biggest expense, after debt service.  And there is a lot less labor involved in running an RV park.  One guy and a hose can wash down and RV site in five minutes. 

Without getting into to much detail. A hotel room that is rented for a week has to have 6 stay over cleanings and one check out cleaning. 

A RV site that is rented for a week only needs a check out cleaning. 

A branded hotel needs a “remodel” every 5-7 years. And that includes rooms and public areas.   Mostly the soft goods in the rooms. 

An RV park needs to upgrade its public spaces every 6-8 years. 

The cost of building a hotel compared to the cost of building a RV park...well let’s just say it’s not even in the same ball park.

And the maintenance and up keep of a hotel is considerably higher than an RV park.   

 Of course I don’t have a way of factoring in the very expensive real estate that the fort sits on. But in my humble opinion if Disney was to build a new RV resort it would not be on bay lake.

It would be built far from any park or entertainment venue.

And it would turn a tidy profit for Disney

Ok, when I can park my RV on a nice, new campsite at Disney's new RV resort, the beer is on me.  

[shaffecv 12]

1 hour ago, DaveInTN said:

Ok, when I can park my RV on a nice, new campsite at Disney's new RV resort, the beer is on me.  

I'll bring the steaks.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

5 hours ago, DaveInTN said:

Ok, when I can park my RV on a nice, new campsite at Disney's new RV resort, the beer is on me.  

I was commenting on whether they would build a RV park today if it hadn’t been built originally.    Not that they will build a new one. 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

10 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

I was commenting on whether they would build a RV park today if it hadn’t been built originally.    Not that they will build a new one. 

I gotcha.  I still don't think they would.  But I understand your points.  

[PghBob 31]

Remember some of the reasons DVC is a good deal for Disney.  Some of these would transfer over to a new campground.

While Disney would have the cost of building a CG, the DVC owners would foot the bill for operations, and significantly, any upgrades and repairs.  For example, as a DVC member, I am currently paying for a roof replacement of our building in 20 years.  Not to mention, seemingly endless upgrades and refurbs.

Next, DVC members in a proposed CG would pay all taxes and utilities.

Disney already owns the property, so no costs there.  I could be missing something, but I think Disney's only cost would be to build the place.

I imagine, that the Fort's  occupancy rate of 93% (last year) could drop a little with a DVC campground.  BTW, that occupancy rate is the highest in all of Disney and other hotels and resorts would do virtually anything to match it.

So, I agree a new DVC CG is unlikely, but certainly not cost prohibitive.  Critiques invited.

[shaffecv 12]

Having at least one loop added with pull through sites would be great.

Some of those larger coaches seem to struggle in a few of the tighter loops.

Plus the tent loops could be convert to full hook ups also.

But the amount of underground work required for sewer, water and power to be distributed to all the sites is cost prohibitive to Disney.

 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

4 hours ago, shaffecv said:

.

But the amount of underground work required for sewer, water and power to be distributed to all the sites is cost prohibitive to Disney.

 

 We added two new spots at our mobile home park a few years back. We had to set meter bases for electricity, running water lines and sewer lines. With labor we probably spent $2000/ spot.  At 100+ dollars a night Disney would make their money back in no time.