Did I just pay $175 for a campsite?

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

1 hour ago, dblr....Rennie said:

Ray, sounds like a great plan!!!!!!!! We will be at Saratoga Springs over the Christmas rush, we will need to get Jason and meet up at the porch for that beer!!!!!

When will you be at Saratoga?

we will be at Wyndham bonnet creek from December 23-30. But we are hoping to either add 3 nights before or after at a DVC resort.  Preferably the Poly.  

[keith_h 420]

9 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

Not to be argumentative but to get an accurate price of what it costs you to camp at the fort you have to take into account the cost of the RV.  Even if you use it at other campgrounds. 

If we weren't at the Fort we would be at another campground in the area not a Disney hotel. We use our trailer 50+ nights a year as most weekends we are off doing something be it regular  camping or weekend jaunts to nearby cities. We also take a couple of week or longer trips each year. So all of the basic costs are the same as far as we are concerned.

Based on the hotels we use to stay at before the trailer I did some calculations and figured it was more or less a break even proposition if we kept the trailer 5-7 years. Other than the original cost everything else is pretty insignificant. I only pay $14/yr for insurance, materials for upkeep come to another $20-$30 per year and registration/taxes were $75 this year. Prorated across each night used they don't amount to much. The key is we didn't buy the trailer to save money when we travel. We just got tired of hotels and tents and wanted something that would allow us to still do what we already did with more flexibility and comfort.

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

For me it depends on the type of trip I want to have. We're going to be at the World next weekend. We're bringing our Grandnephew, and we're doing parks. A hotel makes more sense. We're making a beeline down Thursday evening, getting up early Friday morning, and going hard for 3.5 days, then making a beeline home on Monday evening.

For our longer trips, when it is just us, yes, I will stay at the Fort in a heartbeat. It's more relaxing, we can go looping, hang out with other Fiends, stay at the campground till 2 in the afternoon, etc. We're not pool people, so "hanging out" when we stay at other resorts has no appeal.

I also wish we could still do that for our quick weekends when just going "because", but we just don't have the stamina to do that any more, so we get an All-Star or stay offsite.We can't pull the camper down or home in one 12 hour stretch anymore, set up at 2 in the morning, and have any fun, just to head home on Sunday or Monday again. But we do visit the Fort and visit Fiends, and I kick myself every evening when we have to "go back to our room" But I know realistically it's just not possible.

So, yes, money does play into it some, but there are other factors, such as time, and physical capability. Because the Fort IS expensive, we save it for longer trips when we can truly enjoy it.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

1 hour ago, keith_h said:

If we weren't at the Fort we would be at another campground in the area not a Disney hotel. We use our trailer 50+ nights a year as most weekends we are off doing something be it regular  camping or weekend jaunts to nearby cities. We also take a couple of week or longer trips each year. So all of the basic costs are the same as far as we are concerned.

Based on the hotels we use to stay at before the trailer I did some calculations and figured it was more or less a break even proposition if we kept the trailer 5-7 years. Other than the original cost everything else is pretty insignificant. I only pay $14/yr for insurance, materials for upkeep come to another $20-$30 per year and registration/taxes were $75 this year. Prorated across each night used they don't amount to much. The key is we didn't buy the trailer to save money when we travel. We just got tired of hotels and tents and wanted something that would allow us to still do what we already did with more flexibility and comfort.

Just out of curiosity... how many people do you camp with,  normally?

how many miles to the fort are you?

[Travisma 1,317]

My 2 cents.

We miss the days of being able to book a Friday/Saturday night for a weekend visit.

But even if that was still possible, we probably couldn't utilize it because of my granddaughters schedules (that's why we cancelled our 2016 Halloween trip).

Also just going for 2 nights is a lot of prepping and setting up the PUP for us at our age.

Being able to get the nights you want without a major hassle is worse than the $$$$ they now charge and takes the fun out of planning.

Is the Fort expensive... Yes it is.

Are some other campgrounds expensive, yes, lots of people have posted stories about high prices at other sites.

Is the Fort Worth it, that's a personal choice.

[keith_h 420]

2 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

Just out of curiosity... how many people do you camp with,  normally?

how many miles to the fort are you?

Just Rene and myself. That will probably change over the next few years with my oldest starting to have children. We are about 600 miles from the Fort. Before the trailer we would drive it in one day but after the first trip we decided to take break it up stopping in Savannah for a nite or two.

We've always done a fair amount of traveling even when the kids were still around. In fact they were so used to traveling the first thing they did was fall asleep even if we were just going downtown for dinner. When we were on the West Coast we would make 5 or 6 trips a year to SoCal to go to Disneyland. During the 90's we lived here and would go down to WDW once or twice a year with the kids. We never stayed on WDW property then as we would get a free suite at one of the convention hotels on International Drive where my brother was the general  manager. We didn't go at all during the 200n's as the kids had too much going on in high school and college along with older parent obligations for me.    

As I said above I agree that rates are getting to the point that no matter how much we like the Fort it is something we won't be doing as often as we would like to. When you add in all of the other areas that have gone up in price and have so many other things in this country to see and do it wasn't a hard decision to make. It also helps looking at it from a public service standpoint and that is there are two less people in the line thereby decreasing the wait times.

 

[Starbuc71 162]

4 hours ago, ImDownWithDisney said:

Welcome to capitalism....supply and demand....people from all over the country (and world) flock to WDW to spend money. You can't blame Disney for wanting to make $ for their shareholders. I wish they would slow down on the price increases, but it is their right to run it the way they see fit. Disney has always been a place for those with disposable income. Some of our friends have saved for years to go one time. Disney and the Fort still hold value for us. It is a personal decision everyone has to make. We could stay for free 6 miles north of the Magic Kingdom on every trip, but we choose to stay at the Fort. That may or may not change with economics. Nobody is forcing us to go spend money there.

Also we are campers...not just Fort campers. We would own a camper if the Fort was bulldozed into Bay Lake. So the cost of the RV never factors into my decision to stay at the Fort. There are plenty of places to camp on the cheap if you desire. There is also plenty of places to camp for not so cheap, including some that are close to Fort prices without half of the benefits. RV'ing can be a shoestring budget affair or downright absurd depending on how you approach it.

Honestly, sometimes I am amazed that the prices are not higher considering all of the ancillary services that are present at WDW. They run their own water plants, power plant, trash collection, utility company, fire dept, security, grass cutting, engineering, transportation, and so on. None of those generate a dime of revenue, but the operation budgets grow every year.

 

Great quote to show that everyone's opinions and situations are different. We were ones that pretty much solely camped at the fort and reservations and prices just got too out of control for us. You are right. Disney reserves the right to charge whatever they want and people will still pay even if it's not us. It's a shame though as I said. You used to be able to book a quick 3 day weekend a month out for under $300 bucks

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

9 minutes ago, Starbuc71 said:

Great quote to show that everyone's opinions and situations are different. We were ones that pretty much solely camped at the fort and reservations and prices just got too out of control for us. You are right. Disney reserves the right to charge whatever they want and people will still pay even if it's not us. It's a shame though as I said. You used to be able to book a quick 3 day weekend a month out for under $300 bucks

It is a shame, but if it were cheaper it would be that much harder to get a reservations. RV use is exploding right now. Look at what is happening in the national parks. They are swamped during peak season. The NPS is contemplating a reservation system for Zion just for a day visit. The problem is the end users are growing faster than the facilities or attractions.

[caveat lector 181]

19 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

Agree 100%.   To me $175/ night is too much.  And I'm not the only one. 

That's why I asked you how much is to much for you?

Sorry Ray, wasn't dodging your question.  It's just not quantifiable for me.  I save my nickels aND dimes 50 weeks a year so that I can do want I want for those 2 weeks. Would I pay $1,000 a night? Nope!  So the cutoff is somewhere in between.  I'm not trying to be dramatic either.  Could I save money by doing something else? Yep, agreed.  But I wouldn't get the experience I desire.  Just a different set of priorities I suppose.  This definitely isn't a right vs wrong discussion.

[dblr....Rennie 224]

22 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

When will you be at Saratoga?

we will be at Wyndham bonnet creek from December 23-30. But we are hoping to either add 3 nights before or after at a DVC resort.  Preferably the Poly.  

Check in 12/24 check out 1/2

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 8/26/2017 at 0:45 PM, ImDownWithDisney said:

It is a shame, but if it were cheaper it would be that much harder to get a reservations. RV use is exploding right now. Look at what is happening in the national parks. They are swamped during peak season. The NPS is contemplating a reservation system for Zion just for a day visit. The problem is the end users are growing faster than the facilities or attractions.

Which is exactly why it is a mystery to me that Disney does not expand the Fort and/or add an additional separate campground or two.....

If one of their Resorts is popular they waste no time in expanding it or building another one right next to it. The only capacity they have added to the Fort since the 1970's was the additional sites on the 600 loop and removing the cabins on the 2100 loop (but that was campsites originally so really doesn't count...)

Either the Fort turns a profit or it doesn't, if it didn't I would imagine it would be gone tomorrow and if it does and demand is so high, why aren't they building more loops?   

[PghBob 31]

1 hour ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Which is exactly why it is a mystery to me that Disney does not expand the Fort and/or add an additional separate campground or two.....

If one of their Resorts is popular they waste no time in expanding it or building another one right next to it. The only capacity they have added to the Fort since the 1970's was the additional sites on the 600 loop and removing the cabins on the 2100 loop (but that was campsites originally so really doesn't count...)

Either the Fort turns a profit or it doesn't, if it didn't I would imagine it would be gone tomorrow and if it does and demand is so high, why aren't they building more loops?   

I talked with a manager type at the Outpost last Fall and asked him that question.  The person responded that expansion of the Fort was under discussion by the big wigs.  This person also noted that the expansion might include space across the road from the Fort, near the Fort entrance.  I'm not holding my breath.

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

2 hours ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

and demand is so high, why aren't they building more loops?   

Like previous booms, it could be followed by a bust, but if Millennials continue with the "full timing" that may not happen. It's probably a wait and see by the bean counters to see how long the trend continues.

 

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

1 hour ago, PghBob said:

I talked with a manager type at the Outpost last Fall and asked him that question.  The person responded that expansion of the Fort was under discussion by the big wigs.  This person also noted that the expansion might include space across the road from the Fort, near the Fort entrance.  I'm not holding my breath.

I think that area is protected, so not likely, AND it's only bout 1/2 mile (as the crow flies) from the edge of the Epcot parking lot.

It would be cool though, a campsite near Epcot, with a direct walking (and/or cart/bicycle) path to the parking lot.  Build a cart bridge over Vista to/from the Fort, and enclose the entire path in steel rails with a steel rail enclosed parking area for the carts (with a pedestrian exit).

[Starbuc71 162]

2 hours ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Which is exactly why it is a mystery to me that Disney does not expand the Fort and/or add an additional separate campground or two.....

If one of their Resorts is popular they waste no time in expanding it or building another one right next to it. The only capacity they have added to the Fort since the 1970's was the additional sites on the 600 loop and removing the cabins on the 2100 loop (but that was campsites originally so really doesn't count...)

Either the Fort turns a profit or it doesn't, if it didn't I would imagine it would be gone tomorrow and if it does and demand is so high, why aren't they building more loops?   

In my opinion,  I don't think they will ever expand the fort. As much as we all talk about how hard it is to get a reservation, there are way too many empty sites Sunday through Thursday. Sometimes on a Sunday, traffic can be backed up to the four corner stop to check out.  If all the sites were full all the time they might consider it.  I think the thought of adding lake front sites would be great but I'm sure they would be well over $200 a night at all times

[Starbuc71 162]

5 minutes ago, mouseketab.....Carol said:

I think that area is protected, so not likely, AND it's only bout 1/2 mile (as the crow flies) from the edge of the Epcot parking lot.

It would be cool though, a campsite near Epcot, with a direct walking (and/or cart/bicycle) path to the parking lot.  Build a cart bridge over Vista to/from the Fort, and enclose the entire path in steel rails with a steel rail enclosed parking area for the carts (with a pedestrian exit).

Great dream, but it will never happen. We can't get a cart bridge from the meadow post to the bike barn and they can't figure out that the restaurants at the lodge would make a ton more money if they allowed carts to drive to the lodge

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

1 minute ago, Starbuc71 said:

Great dream, but it will never happen. We can't get a cart bridge from the meadow post to the bike barn and they can't figure out that the restaurants at the lodge would make a ton more money if they allowed carts to drive to the lodge

What if is always fun though, as long as you are realistic that it probably won't happen :)

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

2 hours ago, PghBob said:

I talked with a manager type at the Outpost last Fall and asked him that question.  The person responded that expansion of the Fort was under discussion by the big wigs.  This person also noted that the expansion might include space across the road from the Fort, near the Fort entrance.  I'm not holding my breath.

I've mentioned this before but if I was Disney (oh, if only....LOL) I would add two more CGs:

One for the high-end market, big diesel pushers and the like, call it the "Deluxe Level" and ALL the Loops would be the 3000 Loop.... 

Put it near/next to the Fort, (which would become the "Moderate Level"), and make some/all of them waterfront sites. (Can you imagine the charge for those??)

 

And then build a "Value Level" in some God-forsaken corner of Disney property that would be a glorified parking lot. Make it as large or small as you want. Just someplace to plug in, hop on a bus to the parks, and only come back to sleep. The build for this would be cheap, it would be easy to shut it down during slow times, and most importantly it would allow people to get a last minute spot again like the old days, even on the weekends.    

I know this will likely never happen, but I am astounded that Disney is ignoring an entire market segment like this. Two markets really, the high end and the low end, and then the rest of us in the middle who would go to the Fort more often if only we could get a site at a true moderate price, so really Three market segments I guess...

If Disney was losing potential on site hotel customers to off-site properties, they would be holding non-stop meetings to figure out how to get them back on-property, why they don't seem to care about the RVers and Campers that they are losing is beyond me, but maybe I just answered my own question........  

 

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

34 minutes ago, Starbuc71 said:

In my opinion,  I don't think they will ever expand the fort. As much as we all talk about how hard it is to get a reservation, there are way too many empty sites Sunday through Thursday. Sometimes on a Sunday, traffic can be backed up to the four corner stop to check out.  If all the sites were full all the time they might consider it.  I think the thought of adding lake front sites would be great but I'm sure they would be well over $200 a night at all times

Which is another mystery..... Disney has gone to great lengths to try and spread out the crowds/demand in the parks to eliminate the old "slow times", why not do the same at the Fort?

Advertise a special lower rate for Sun thru Thurs to fill those sites, and/or shift the demand by adding weekend-only parking lot type sites with minimal services and minimal themeing to try and re-capture the family business they are losing because they can't get in or can't afford the current high rates.

And even if this is a "boom cycle" for RVs, the minimal service Lots would be easy to build and just as easy to shut down if demand drops. I know if the price and availability was right I would stay for a few nights in one of Disney's unused parking lots, even longer if I could get electric and water and a central dump station. Would I like it as much as the Fort? Hell No! But I would still be at Disney and just a short ride away from the Parks and all the "Magic" I could handle for the day.....   

 

[Campingdad 3]

On 8/25/2017 at 8:10 AM, h2odivers...Ray said:

Just out of curiosity I looked up 7 nights at the fort during march 2018 in a premium site.  And 7 nights at ASMusic for the same days.  With tax 

Fort =$196.85/ night

ASMusic=$ 181.48/ night. 

 

I can't believe it's cheaper to stay at a resort hotel than in your own RV.  

I know it's a lifestyle choice but does it get to a point when it's just not worth it???

It has crossed that line and that's what I was getting at. It's become cheaper to stay in their hotel then invest thousands of dollars to bring your own home. 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

1 hour ago, Campingdad said:

It has crossed that line and that's what I was getting at. It's become cheaper to stay in their hotel then invest thousands of dollars to bring your own home. 

That would be true if you only camped at the FORT, but I"ll bet 95% or more travel to other campgrounds during the year.

[bhall 115]

35 minutes ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

That would be true if you only camped at the FORT, but I"ll bet 95% or more travel to other campgrounds during the year.

....and  have dogs that are too neurotic to send to a kennel.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

1 hour ago, Grumpy and Grandma said:

That would be true if you only camped at the FORT, but I"ll bet 95% or more travel to other campgrounds during the year.

With all due respect. 

We are talking about the Fort.

Not other campgrounds. 

I know this is a touchy subject, based on several posts here,  but the fort keeps raising their prices and cutting back on service.   I believe most of us can agree on that.   But it's not just the fort. It's all of WDW.    

IMHO Disney is living off of its reputation as being the number one family vacation destination.

And those bean counters in the corporate office don't see that they are running off life long loyal customers.   Just read some of the posts on this thread. 

You will see comments like...

"we were ones that solely camped at the fort and reservations and prices just got too out of control for us."

"I wish they would slow down on the price increases"

"I agree that rates are getting to the point that no matter how much we like the fort it is something we won't be doing as often as we would like to."

 

I will defend WDW's right to charge what every the market will bear.  Heck, I own stock  I want them to make money.   

But if you look at other industries they have loyalty programs and cater more to their loyal customers than Disney.  

Why?  Because they know that their regular loyal customers are their bread and butter.   Its business 101.

its cheaper to market to an existing customer.  It costs about 6-8 times more to attract a new customer than it does to keep an existing customer. Approve 65-70% of most company's business comes from existing customers. 

Yes  there will always be those people that save up their pennies to take a once in a lifetime disney vacations and they won't know how much prices have gone up and service and quality has gone down  

It seems like Disney is choosing to make a quick buck off of the once in a life time customer.  

I personally would rather make $20 off of a loyal customer once or twice  a year for the next 20 years then make $100 one time off of a one time customer.  

But thats just my opinion   

 

[Grumpy and Grandma 740]

59 minutes ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

With all due respect. 

We are talking about the Fort.

Not other campgrounds. 

 

"It's become cheaper to stay in their hotel then invest thousands of dollars to bring your own home".

His comment insinuates that you only buy an RV for the FORT. And as has been mentioned in many other threads there are many Resort Campgrounds that charge the same price as DISNEY or more during peak times. 

Here's an example from San Diego which does not provide cable, site is only for 4 people, plus $10.00 per day for a 2nd car, $10.00 per day for a GC, plus $3.00 per day per pet.

 

Site Type	Daily Rates for 1-4 People (No weekly rates)
Super Site	FROM: $359.00	TO: $432.00
Beach Front	$225.00	$381.00
Bay View	$182.00	$283.00
Distinguished	$139.00	$186.00
Preferred	$122.00	$173.00
Select	$116.00	$161.00
Standard	$111.00	$151.00
Limited	$92.00	$128.00

 

 

 

[Starbuc71 162]

13 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

With all due respect. 

We are talking about the Fort.

Not other campgrounds. 

I know this is a touchy subject, based on several posts here,  but the fort keeps raising their prices and cutting back on service.   I believe most of us can agree on that.   But it's not just the fort. It's all of WDW.    

IMHO Disney is living off of its reputation as being the number one family vacation destination.

And those bean counters in the corporate office don't see that they are running off life long loyal customers.   Just read some of the posts on this thread. 

You will see comments like...

"we were ones that solely camped at the fort and reservations and prices just got too out of control for us."

"I wish they would slow down on the price increases"

"I agree that rates are getting to the point that no matter how much we like the fort it is something we won't be doing as often as we would like to."

 

I will defend WDW's right to charge what every the market will bear.  Heck, I own stock  I want them to make money.   

But if you look at other industries they have loyalty programs and cater more to their loyal customers than Disney.  

Why?  Because they know that their regular loyal customers are their bread and butter.   Its business 101.

its cheaper to market to an existing customer.  It costs about 6-8 times more to attract a new customer than it does to keep an existing customer. Approve 65-70% of most company's business comes from existing customers. 

Yes  there will always be those people that save up their pennies to take a once in a lifetime disney vacations and they won't know how much prices have gone up and service and quality has gone down  

It seems like Disney is choosing to make a quick buck off of the once in a life time customer.  

I personally would rather make $20 off of a loyal customer once or twice  a year for the next 20 years then make $100 one time off of a one time customer.  

But thats just my opinion   

 

  Awesome quote. Yes we are talking about the fort and not other campground. I don't care what other campgrounds charge.don't go there either if you don't like the price. And you can't compare California stuff to Florida. Hell, look at Disneyland compared to Walt Disney World. I agree 100% on returning customers. Hell, again it's a campground people.  We are the 5% the camp predominately camp at the fort. Again we are lucky enough to live close by. As a lot of people say, you get spoiled after staying at the fort.  As I stated before, we sold our camper for two reasons. One, the fort is just out of control with prices and rule breakers. The second was my kids wanted to go other places other than the most magical place on earth. In my opinion, it's not the most magical place on earth anymore.  Look at what they are doing to the Star Wars franchise. Again, in my opinion they're ruining a good franchise that let just enough movies and items out in the past and are now over saturating the franchise to the point where it's going to crash and burn, but make them a butt load of money    And while I am on a rant, who in their right mind would buy a one day ticket for Hollywood studios these days. You might as well just put money in an envelope and send it to Disney.