Is the magic gone?

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 6/7/2017 at 4:15 AM, Starbuc71 said:

Believe me, they are the almighty Disney. There is no excuse not to provide a clean upgraded park and experience and still make a zillion dollars. In my opinion, the run down of the parks is my biggest issue these days,  there is no excuse for it. As stated in another post, I feel so bad for attractions like the land in Epcot. The ride is not only outdated but filthy and run down. No excuse in my book.  And last, has anyone noticed every time at Epcot that wonderful poop smell coming out of the character meet and greet opposite innovations West?   It's there ALL THE TIME.  No excuse Disney

There is no excuse. And it's doubly ironic considering that Disney was the company that first showed that it could be done and done right.

And EPCOT is Exhibit A in this discussion. What was originally built as an inspiring "Thinking Man's Theme Park" has drifted into a hodge podge of semi-closed buildings and the remaining attractions are slowly being replaced with more Roller Coasters, more product placements, more movie tie-ins, and more gift shops.

Replacing "Horizons" with a thrill ride that belonged in Tomorrowland was one of the first signs that EPCOT as we once knew it was going to be going bye-bye.

I would gladly pay 3 times the current ticket price to bring my 7 year old to the EPCOT of the late 80's early 90's. It was fun, uplifting, educational guide to the best of humanity. Now it's just a sad reminder of how neglected it has been by a Company that used to have room for dreams not just dollars.....

 

[LONE-STAR 370]

1 hour ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

There is no excuse. And it's doubly ironic considering that Disney was the company that first showed that it could be done and done right.

And EPCOT is Exhibit A in this discussion. What was originally built as an inspiring "Thinking Man's Theme Park" has drifted into a hodge podge of semi-closed buildings and the remaining attractions are slowly being replaced with more Roller Coasters, more product placements, more movie tie-ins, and more gift shops.

Replacing "Horizons" with a thrill ride that belonged in Tomorrowland was one of the first signs that EPCOT as we once knew it was going to be going bye-bye.

I would gladly pay 3 times the current ticket price to bring my 7 year old to the EPCOT of the late 80's early 90's. It was fun, uplifting, educational guide to the best of humanity. Now it's just a sad reminder of how neglected it has been by a Company that used to have room for dreams not just dollars.....

 

I don't want all of Epcot from the 80's that place was pretty boring as a kid. 

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

8 hours ago, LONE-STAR said:

I don't want all of Epcot from the 80's that place was pretty boring as a kid. 

I get that. It wasn't for everybody. But I thought it was wondrous and illuminating (there's my two new dictionary words of the day.... LOL)

I couldn't wait to see what new exhibits were going to be in Innoventions, or was it Communicore back then?  I remember calling home from a giant car-sized cell-phone and being inside a tornado.

I was fascinated by how a car was designed and built, How my body fought off infections, and where energy came from. How hydroponics might work on other planets, and how singing vegetables made lunch seem more interesting. How photographs were made, how submarines could go so deep in the ocean (and what they saw when they got there.... hint, it wasn't Nemo.... ;-)

But the best stuff of all was when they showed that our "Journey into Imagination" had just begun. It truly was "Future World".  At each turn there was an effort to amaze, engage, and inspire. There was a sense of optimism that "If We Can Dream It, We Can Do It" that is sadly missing now.

And I was amazed. I know it wasn't the thrill rides of the other parks, but when the lights go down in "Energy" and the entire auditorium breaks up and starts moving (WOW, I still remember that first time it did that) and when on "Horizons" you get to pick what future you want to see, or when your ship is miniaturized and is flying through a "Body Wars", that's when I felt as though I had been on the ultimate thrill ride.

That feeling of amazement and optimism stayed with me a lot longer than the brief smile from a roller coaster. It was a time when "Future World" lived up to it's name and for me as a kid it left an indelible impression.

 

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

1 hour ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

I get that. It wasn't for everybody. But I thought it was wondrous and illuminating (there's my two new dictionary words of the day.... LOL)

I couldn't wait to see what new exhibits were going to be in Innoventions, or was it Communicore back then?  I remember calling home from a giant car-sized cell-phone and being inside a tornado.

I was fascinated by how a car was designed and built, How my body fought off infections, and where energy came from. How hydroponics might work on other planets, and how singing vegetables made lunch seem more interesting. How photographs were made, how submarines could go so deep in the ocean (and what they saw when they got there.... hint, it wasn't Nemo.... ;-)

But the best stuff of all was when they showed that our "Journey into Imagination" had just begun. It truly was "Future World".  At each turn there was an effort to amaze, engage, and inspire. There was a sense of optimism that "If We Can Dream It, We Can Do It" that is sadly missing now.

And I was amazed. I know it wasn't the thrill rides of the other parks, but when the lights go down in "Energy" and the entire auditorium breaks up and starts moving (WOW, I still remember that first time it did that) and when on "Horizons" you get to pick what future you want to see, or when your ship is miniaturized and is flying through a "Body Wars", that's when I felt as though I had been on the ultimate thrill ride.

That feeling of amazement and optimism stayed with me a lot longer than the brief smile from a roller coaster. It was a time when "Future World" lived up to it's name and for me as a kid it left an indelible impression.

 

I agree 100%. As kid I loved future world. I could not wait to check things out. I wish my kids could experience those things.

[kadancer 82]

6 hours ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

I get that. It wasn't for everybody. But I thought it was wondrous and illuminating (there's my two new dictionary words of the day.... LOL)

I couldn't wait to see what new exhibits were going to be in Innoventions, or was it Communicore back then?  I remember calling home from a giant car-sized cell-phone and being inside a tornado.

I was fascinated by how a car was designed and built, How my body fought off infections, and where energy came from. How hydroponics might work on other planets, and how singing vegetables made lunch seem more interesting. How photographs were made, how submarines could go so deep in the ocean (and what they saw when they got there.... hint, it wasn't Nemo.... ;-)

But the best stuff of all was when they showed that our "Journey into Imagination" had just begun. It truly was "Future World".  At each turn there was an effort to amaze, engage, and inspire. There was a sense of optimism that "If We Can Dream It, We Can Do It" that is sadly missing now.

And I was amazed. I know it wasn't the thrill rides of the other parks, but when the lights go down in "Energy" and the entire auditorium breaks up and starts moving (WOW, I still remember that first time it did that) and when on "Horizons" you get to pick what future you want to see, or when your ship is miniaturized and is flying through a "Body Wars", that's when I felt as though I had been on the ultimate thrill ride.

That feeling of amazement and optimism stayed with me a lot longer than the brief smile from a roller coaster. It was a time when "Future World" lived up to it's name and for me as a kid it left an indelible impression.

 

I love this EPCOT, too.  You could spend a whole day exploring the exhibits and never ride an attraction.  I remember taking my 7 year old niece to EPCOT on Thanksgiving and letting her call home to wish everyone a Happy Turkey Day!  She still talks about that call to this day!  One of my favorites was the stationary bikes in the Wonders of Life pavilion that you could ride and the screen made it seem like you were riding through the Magic Kingdom.  It makes me sad that these types of experiences have gone by the wayside because my DS would absolutely love them.

[Starbuc71 162]

I agree with all of you. Epcot was a place of learning, imagination and working twords the future, but now it's too far gone to get it back to that. We rode journey into imagination on Saturday for the first time in years. I know nothing has changed on that ride in years, but to me, it's a Epcot classic that was never a classic to begin with. It's a good start for an awesome refurb

[kadancer 82]

We are looking forward to riding Journey Into Imagination on our upcoming trip and enjoying the jumping fountains.  I wish Disney would bring some of the "edutainment" back to EPCOT.  It was a great concept for fun learning.  I think we assume that today's kids are so caught up in the thrills that we forget to give them other options.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

On 6/10/2017 at 1:59 PM, kadancer said:

I love this EPCOT, too.  You could spend a whole day exploring the exhibits and never ride an attraction.  I remember taking my 7 year old niece to EPCOT on Thanksgiving and letting her call home to wish everyone a Happy Turkey Day!  She still talks about that call to this day!  One of my favorites was the stationary bikes in the Wonders of Life pavilion that you could ride and the screen made it seem like you were riding through the Magic Kingdom.  It makes me sad that these types of experiences have gone by the wayside because my DS would absolutely love them.

I remember those bikes, all those exhibits in Wonders of Life were great. I also remember the metal bars that were different temperatures but when you grabbed them at the same time your hands would feel the opposite, cold when they were really hot (or was it hot when they were really cold? LOL)

It is sad. What was once a park with a common theme and bursting with optimism for the future is now just a patchwork that no one seems to really care about.

 

12 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

I agree with all of you. Epcot was a place of learning, imagination and working twords the future, but now it's too far gone to get it back to that. We rode journey into imagination on Saturday for the first time in years. I know nothing has changed on that ride in years, but to me, it's a Epcot classic that was never a classic to begin with. It's a good start for an awesome refurb

Be careful what you wish for...... the current Disney Management has no use for Imagination, they want THRILLS SPEED ADRENALINE MOVIE CHARACTERS, and oh yeah, IMMEDIATE RETURN ON INVESTMENT!!!  They are just as likely to raze the entire pavilion for a new roller coaster as they are to refurbish and update something they never understood in the first place....

I wonder what ol' Walt would say about the run-down and dated look of EPCOT and much of WDW in general, never mind what he'd say about the constant hand in your pocket looking to monetize every second of a families stay at his name-sake Park.

 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

1 hour ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

 

I wonder what ol' Walt would say about the run-down and dated look of EPCOT and much of WDW in general, never mind what he'd say about the constant hand in your pocket looking to monetize every second of a families stay at his name-sake Park.

 

I agree, but furthermore, I don't think we can know what Walt would have thought about Epcot even as it originally existed in 1982.  It was absolutely nothing like the EPCOT he envisioned in the 60's.  He may have like it, since he liked the concept of World's Fairs which EPCOT Center had some similarities to.  But who knows? 

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

2 hours ago, DaveInTN said:

I agree, but furthermore, I don't think we can know what Walt would have thought about Epcot even as it originally existed in 1982.  It was absolutely nothing like the EPCOT he envisioned in the 60's.  He may have like it, since he liked the concept of World's Fairs which EPCOT Center had some similarities to.  But who knows? 

Good point. I really enjoyed that video that is floating around somewhere about how EPCOT came to be. Especially the part where the Imagineers took the two competing models, one of a World's Fair, and one of a Futuristic Theme Park and just slid them together to make one giant park.  LOL  Definitely not what Walt was originally thinking in the 60's.

But I would say that the EPCOT of the 80's, at least the Future World half of it, was a natural extension of Walt's original Carousel of Progress (another ride that badly needs an update..) and I think he would have been right at home with the theming and overall CAN DO attitude it had.  That idea that we were just getting started and there was no limit to what we could do if we just put our minds to it.

 

[weekender 5]

Having just returned from spending a week at WDW I would agree that Epcot is the park in need of a upgrade in many aspects.  Our friends who were travelling with us and who have not been to Disney in over 10 years commented that Epcot was the one park they would skip next time they visit.   I think Disney is under pressure from Universal Studios and is severely lagging behind them when it comes to attracting the thrill seeking, roller coaster crowd.  With Universal's recent opening of Volcano Bay even the Disney water parks are lacking greatly. 

Personally I used to enjoy the Innoventions area and it is sad that they are closed, but with the thrill seekers it seems they are not interested in these areas.  For me it was cool to see ideas for the future such as the fully automated house, science ideas etc. 

While I still love Disney some of the "Magic" has worn off and is why we only go every other year or so.  We had a great time, but as others have said a little time away is good.   

 

[caveat lector 181]

Once all the connections are made, and I disconnect the hitch from my truck, the Fort makes me smile.  Other than Cloud storage, I'm not sure I get anything more cheaply than yesteryear.  Are there negatives and do things get pricey, you bet.  But its still the best thing for me and my family vacation (although disney cruise is a close 2nd).

[Starbuc71 162]

17 hours ago, weekender said:

Having just returned from spending a week at WDW I would agree that Epcot is the park in need of a upgrade in many aspects.  Our friends who were travelling with us and who have not been to Disney in over 10 years commented that Epcot was the one park they would skip next time they visit.   I think Disney is under pressure from Universal Studios and is severely lagging behind them when it comes to attracting the thrill seeking, roller coaster crowd.  With Universal's recent opening of Volcano Bay even the Disney water parks are lacking greatly. 

Personally I used to enjoy the Innoventions area and it is sad that they are closed, but with the thrill seekers it seems they are not interested in these areas.  For me it was cool to see ideas for the future such as the fully automated house, science ideas etc. 

While I still love Disney some of the "Magic" has worn off and is why we only go every other year or so.  We had a great time, but as others have said a little time away is good.   

 

I have to disagree on your friends saying to skip Epcot next time. Everyone has a choice or an opinion and ours is that Epcot is our favorite park. I will agree, they have no idea what future world is or what it's going to be but the world showcase is a gem all by itself.  You are right about thrill seekers. If you're going to pay upwards near $125 for a one day ticket, you want more than French pastries and Ellen yelling "stupid Judy" from the 90s in universe of energy. We were over the MK with the crowds and actually my kids were also. I guess with our AP it's nice to walk Epcot and have dinner at many different choices. But again, it's probably not worth the money for a one day ticket.  But either is HS these days

[kadancer 82]

16 hours ago, caveat lector said:

Once all the connections are made, and I disconnect the hitch from my truck, the Fort makes me smile.  Other than Cloud storage, I'm not sure I get anything more cheaply than yesteryear.  Are there negatives and do things get pricey, you bet.  But its still the best thing for me and my family vacation (although disney cruise is a close 2nd).

I could not agree more.  The price doesn't not change the way I feel pulling through the Magic Kingdom entrance, hearing "Welcome Home" at the Fort gate, or getting 'it's a small world" stuck in my head.  I think we carry some of the magic with us always.....

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

11 minutes ago, kadancer said:

I could not agree more.  The price doesn't not change the way I feel pulling through the Magic Kingdom entrance, hearing "Welcome Home" at the Fort gate, or getting 'it's a small world" stuck in my head.  I think we carry some of the magic with us always.....

Do they really still say "welcome home" we haven't been told that in years, probably since 2011.

WBI

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

7 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

I have to disagree on your friends saying to skip Epcot next time. Everyone has a choice or an opinion and ours is that Epcot is our favorite park. I will agree, they have no idea what future world is or what it's going to be but the world showcase is a gem all by itself.  You are right about thrill seekers. If you're going to pay upwards near $125 for a one day ticket, you want more than French pastries and Ellen yelling "stupid Judy" from the 90s in universe of energy. We were over the MK with the crowds and actually my kids were also. I guess with our AP it's nice to walk Epcot and have dinner at many different choices. But again, it's probably not worth the money for a one day ticket.  But either is HS these days

I agree, Epcot is a must for us.  After rushing around the other parks we look forward to just walking and relaxing in Epcot.

WBI

[kadancer 82]

4 minutes ago, WannaBeImagineer said:

Do they really still say "welcome home" we haven't been told that in years, probably since 2011.

WBI

They did last summer.  Hopefully, this summer, too.  I'll have to wait and see.

[djsamuel 322]

25 minutes ago, kadancer said:

They did last summer.  Hopefully, this summer, too.  I'll have to wait and see.

They told us welcome home for our stays in May and June.

[kadancer 82]

1 hour ago, djsamuel said:

They told us welcome home for our stays in May and June.

Glad to here that...

[WrigleysWagon 32]

3 hours ago, WannaBeImagineer said:

Do they really still say "welcome home" we haven't been told that in years, probably since 2011.

WBI

We didn't get a "welcome home" in May, but have in the past. It was really disappointing because it was literally one of my wife's favorite moments of past trips.  I'm telling ya, they were off their game the week before memorial day. 

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

2 hours ago, WrigleysWagon said:

We didn't get a "welcome home" in May, but have in the past. It was really disappointing because it was literally one of my wife's favorite moments of past trips.  I'm telling ya, they were off their game the week before memorial day. 

I'd be so disappointed if we didn't get a "welcome home"!  Think I'd ask for it.

[Travisma 1,317]

If you want thrill rides you head to Busch Gardens, Sea World, Six Flags, or one of the other theme parks that doesn't revolve around various family oriented cartoon characters.

Disneyland/MK were designed as family destinations.

EPCOT was future/science themed.

AK was about animals and saving the environment.

HS was to showcase movies in general and Disney in particular.

Other than Rockin Rollercoaster, and maybe Everest, WDW doesn't really have big time thrill rides compared to the other major parks.  but then again they don't have Mickey or Elsa.

Disney can compete with the other parks, but they will need to make a park that revolves around thrill rides only.

[LONE-STAR 370]

We got welcome home during spring break

[kadancer 82]

7 hours ago, Travisma said:

If you want thrill rides you head to Busch Gardens, Sea World, Six Flags, or one of the other theme parks that doesn't revolve around various family oriented cartoon characters.

Disneyland/MK were designed as family destinations.

EPCOT was future/science themed.

AK was about animals and saving the environment.

HS was to showcase movies in general and Disney in particular.

Other than Rockin Rollercoaster, and maybe Everest, WDW doesn't really have big time thrill rides compared to the other major parks.  but then again they don't have Mickey or Elsa.

Disney can compete with the other parks, but they will need to make a park that revolves around thrill rides only.

I find it interesting that thrill rides are necessary for Disney to compete.  In my mind, they should compete because they have a different product and aren't just another amusement park.  One of the things that I found disappointing about the Harry Potter lands in Universal is that they did not choose to theme all of the attractions and that the ones that were themed were so busy tilting and twirling me ( except the Hogwarts Express which I loved) that I actually had more fun waiting in line.  For me, I wish Disney would be Disney and stand alone instead of trying to be Disney and everyone else, too.

[weekender 5]

1 hour ago, kadancer said:

I find it interesting that thrill rides are necessary for Disney to compete.  In my mind, they should compete because they have a different product and aren't just another amusement park.  One of the things that I found disappointing about the Harry Potter lands in Universal is that they did not choose to theme all of the attractions and that the ones that were themed were so busy tilting and twirling me ( except the Hogwarts Express which I loved) that I actually had more fun waiting in line.  For me, I wish Disney would be Disney and stand alone instead of trying to be Disney and everyone else, too.

 

I grew up in Florida and went to Disney World every year (sometimes 2x per year) from shortly after it opened to now.  In addition I still bring my family about every other year so I love Disney and always will.  I love the Disney experience and actually my favorite park is MK even though it is not jammed packed with thrill rides.  It just has all my childhood memories from Pirates of the Caribbean, Peter Pan, Space Mountain, Carousel of Progress, People Mover and even It's a Small World.   

 

I do not disagree about the Magic and also the other responses about Epcot  being one of their favorites, but if you were going to spend $90+ for a ticket just to walk around the Epcot countries and ride Test Track and Soarin I think some people might feel that they did not get their monies worth for the day. 

 

I wish Disney would be able to compete on its own with its product, however at the end of the day we have to remember it is all about revenue for them.    If they are losing attendance to Universal, Busch Gardens, Sea World etc. that hurts Disney's bottom line and impacts how they operate as a company. Also their pricing strategy (continually raising ticket prices, hotels, campsites, etc.) has forced people to either to not go to Disney as often or to look for alternatives.  My sister and her husband live in Florida and changed their Disney AP to a Busch Gardens AP due to money, rides, etc.

 

Do I still love Disney - Yes.  Has it changed over the years - Yes.  Some for the better and some for the worse - Yes.  I will still go to Disney as long as I can afford it, but that is getting more difficult as time goes on.