Wilderness Lodge trip 2017 - Upgrades, Tours and Backstage, Oh My!

[shoreline99 137]

8 hours ago, ependydad...Doug said:

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing.

I told my wife that she and I need to check out Wilderness Lodge after reading this report!

Thanks! It really is beautiful, and we totally lucked out with the room and upgrade. My wife thinks I should change the name of the trip report, lol. 

 

7 hours ago, lightbikes said:

Silly people - sometimes it's just nice to ride around the park.  It's like riding the rails at Magic Kingdom - a chance to just rest and enjoy the sights.

 

I loved inside the Castle and your pictures were wonderful - what a fantastic opportunity !!

 

 

Yes, it was a great opportunity. One I will probably never have again! The imagineers said people would wait in line for an hour and then get mad when they realized it was just transportation and not some kind of boat ride. It takes all kinds, I guess. 

 

6 hours ago, Beckers said:

What do you do for a living? Do the tours have any connection to your profession or did you just take them because they were neat?

I'm an architect, so these tours and the others I took were right up my alley. Plus I got continuing ed credit for them as well

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I just got to read your latest update- and have a few comments.

You are right that CM's call the utilidors the tunnels. The TCD twins both got to work in the MK, and used the tunnels on a daily basis. They loved the CM cafeteria down there, and ate there often.  Did anyone tell you about tunnel juice?  Apparently, those cool trash chutes are not totally sealed, and they leak.  You don't want tunnel juice dripping on you.

According to the twins, the Key to the Kingdom tour only takes guests to a small, nice part of the utilidors.  The really interesting parts are not included in the tour.

Very cool that you got to see Pandora as they were wrapping up construction.  I think that I would really enjoy a guided tour of Animal Kingdom.

Yes, I remember the Discovery River boats. One of the loading docks can be seen to the right as you cross the bridge heading toward the Tree of Life.  I don't blame guests for thinking that they were an attraction, because they were listed on the park maps as an attraction.  There were a few things to see along the ride, including a cave where a stream of fire would shoot out- allegedly from a dragon.  There were always long lines for these boats because they loaded and unloaded slow, and they went slow.  Of course guests were underwhelmed.  They were slow, hot and boring.  One fun fact that nobody probably remembers is that they had a brief time where they had some kind of partnership with Radio Disney (and maybe McDonalds?), and played pop music on the boats. That made things worse.  That was probably around 1999, and was popular with the TCD girls- they were big Radio Disney fans back in the day. 

 You can occasionally see the boats they used for this attraction plying the waters of the Seven Seas Lagoon and Bay Lake. On occasion, they have used these boats as the MK boats for the Fort. And they still use one for the Pirate Fireworks cruise that leaves from the Contemporary Resort.

TCD

[TN22.....Brady 22]

Thanks for sharing. I found the Nomad Lounge on our trip in March, and thought it was a great place, loved the food and drinks, but also realized that in the very near future this place be a mad house.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

17 minutes ago, TN22.....Brady said:

Thanks for sharing. I found the Nomad Lounge on our trip in March, and thought it was a great place, loved the food and drinks, but also realized that in the very near future this place be a mad house.

Agreed.  It's sad to think about what the Nomad Lounge will be like once Pandora opens.  It is such a nice, quiet, hidden place now.  By far, the nicest bar/lounge on property.

TCD

[Duane 152]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:27 AM, shoreline99 said:

After registering at the conference and checking in for the day, I was going to head back to the Magic Kingdom! I was booked for a backstage tour of the park with one of the architects that work at WDW and are responsible for the design and maintenance of the various properties. One thing I learned on this trip is that Imagineering, which everyone knows about, is in charge of the design and construction of new attractions and park areas - once they are done, it gets turned over to the parks and their internal team is responsible for maintenance and repairs. This team is also responsible for renovations (ie Skipper Canteen, in conjunction with Imagineering) and ongoing maintenance, as well as special projects. This morning we were going to get to tour one of those special projects (among other things), so on to a bus we went and headed back to WDW.

 

13 hours ago, shoreline99 said:

I'm an architect, so these tours and the others I took were right up my alley. Plus I got continuing ed credit for them as well

I work for a large corporate real estate firm that services clients all over the place, and this is pretty much the life that I lead... supporting Facilities and Project Managers before, during and after the various stages of a facility's life.  I find myself constantly looking at and wondering how a building is constructed and how it is serviced and maintained.  It drives my wife nuts when I walk around always looking around and up at the ceiling, wondering what the PM's had to do to get a space built out and then how does the FM's maintain it after it is turned over to them.  Most folks don't realize what goes into designing, building, maintaining and keeping a facility up and running. 

That tour you went on sounds awesome.  Disney should consider adding something like that to their tour line-up.

I have really enjoyed the TR so far, especially the pictures!  Can't wait for more. 

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

Dang good TR!

 

Maybe I am missing something, but did you get multiple FP+ at different parks on the same day? If so, that's a new one on me.

[shoreline99 137]

Yes - it was new to me as well. We only had one fastpass booked in the morning, at Soarin'. After we rode that, I figured we would have to book the rest of our fastpasses in EPCOT, however the system let me book the next one in HS for R&RC. Only one at a time, though. I guess I could have booked two there, but I didn't try. Once we rode that, I was able to book one at AK, etc.

So i guess you can do it, if you are willing to take a chance on FP+ availability.

[shoreline99 137]

On 5/9/2017 at 9:34 AM, Tri-Circle-D said:

Did anyone tell you about tunnel juice? 

 

According to the twins, the Key to the Kingdom tour only takes guests to a small, nice part of the utilidors.  The really interesting parts are not included in the tour.

Very cool that you got to see Pandora as they were wrapping up construction.  I think that I would really enjoy a guided tour of Animal Kingdom.

TCD

OMG I forgot about tunnel juice. Yes, it was mentioned when we were discussing that some guy actually has to go through every foot of that pipe once a year. There are access panels every 25-30' or so, and you can see that there are leaks here and there. Yech.

We pretty much saw everything down there, which I really hadn't expected from hearing about the KTTK tour from others, so that was cool. We probably spent a good hour+ walking around down there. The Mouseketeria was doing a booming business, and I forgot to mention there is even a computer 'lab' down there, looked like a spot where people could check their email and the like during break time.

A guided tour was really great, and i would totally recommend it if you have the chance, especially with an imagineer - it was great to hear some of the stories they had. To me, that park has some of the best theming on property.

On 5/9/2017 at 10:34 AM, TN22.....Brady said:

Thanks for sharing. I found the Nomad Lounge on our trip in March, and thought it was a great place, loved the food and drinks, but also realized that in the very near future this place be a mad house.

Bingo. As TCD said it's a great bar/lounge, certainly one of the nicest on property (right now I'd have to say Geyser Point is my current favorite casual lounge though). It's going to be nuts in short order though. I'm still not sure how well Tiffins is going to do there, though - I've still heard mixed reviews about the menu and location, although the food and service reviews have been consistently good. Once the park is open at night regularly it may draw a larger crowd, but it has always seemed empty to me during the day.

On 5/9/2017 at 11:24 AM, Duane said:

I work for a large corporate real estate firm that services clients all over the place, and this is pretty much the life that I lead... supporting Facilities and Project Managers before, during and after the various stages of a facility's life.  I find myself constantly looking at and wondering how a building is constructed and how it is serviced and maintained.  It drives my wife nuts when I walk around always looking around and up at the ceiling, wondering what the PM's had to do to get a space built out and then how does the FM's maintain it after it is turned over to them.  Most folks don't realize what goes into designing, building, maintaining and keeping a facility up and running. 

That tour you went on sounds awesome.  Disney should consider adding something like that to their tour line-up.

I have really enjoyed the TR so far, especially the pictures!  Can't wait for more. 

Thank you!

I know the feeling, and it was certainly a great opportunity to see some of the backstage operations as well as what actually goes into the construction and maintenance of a place like WDW. My wife is used to me coming home with more photos of buildings and details than of the kids by now though.

[shoreline99 137]

Thursday we didn't have any formal plans, but I had to do some work in the morning and we hung out at the hotel for a bit. It was supposed to be another hot one so we figured we would go out and explore early, then see where we ended up for the day.

Good morning, Magic Kingdom!

I think we'll have to stop back later and check out the selections:

Those were pretty typical for the week - different light fare, wine and cheese. A really nice perk. That's the club level lounge up by the top of the Totem pole:

It wasn't too hot yet, so we decided to rent bikes and head over to the fort, for some quality time. My wife had ridden over the day before, and had found out that the bikes were free to use (not sure if this was a club level perk or not, but it was great).

A stop at the concierge desk and we were on our way:

TCD Horse barn:

I wanted to take a ride around the Fort, so we stopped at the Meadow Trading Post. There were still some rockers on the front porch:

No one was playing checkers:

I walked down to Bob's Dock. There were a couple of kids fishing there, but they didn't seem to be having much luck. The food truck was in it's usual place across the pond:

The bubbler was bubbling, and the fish feeder was, well, floating.

The brown paint crew was working there and another group of workers were clearing some trees, so we headed over to the settlement. I counted 6 chairs and two picnic tables on the porch this morning. Miss Josephine was holding court and was having her photo taken with some guests when we walked by. It was a beautiful day at the Fort:

We had to walk over and check out the trading post. Disney gardeners had been busy.

Pioneer Hall and Trail's End (with no hoops ). It was pretty empty at that time of day.

There were, however, plenty of lizards around.

The sun was rising higher, so we decided to head back to the lodge for a swim and some lunch.

We had to check out the swag at the WL and compare it to the Fort. Nothing really eye-catching at either place.

The fireplace in the lobby really is striking.

The new pool by the Villas is taking shape and while I don't know if you can quite see it, there is quite a bit of themed mining equipment that looks like it will be part of the pool area.

Neither of us was super hungry, but we decided to try the chopped brisket and cheese dip at Geyser Point. They do poolside service at the moment, but there was no shade to be found at that time of day so we ate in the bar area. This was really good, and the house made chips are awesome.

There was a large crew working on the boat rental dock that day, not really sure what they were doing but it was great that they all had their yellow vests on.

After some discussion, it was decided that we would pick up at EPCOT where we left off the other day, so we hopped on the bus from the resort and headed over in that direction. The WL shares a bus with the Fort  - not that I mind it, but it's a pet peeve that no matter when we get on the bus or which park we are heading to or from, the bus always goes to the other resort first!

The big golf ball:

I never noticed this concept art before - someone may know, has this always been here by the ball, or is it left over from the Art Festival? Looks like a Herb Ryman work. Either way, I think it's awesome.

Some more EPCOT F&G sights:

I hadn't seen the new totem poles in the Canada pavilion yet, they are really works of art.

The lagoon was looking a little low. Maybe the lack of rain in Florida was catching up a bit.

I'll stop here, but up next we go visit a restaurant in a pavilion that we've never eaten in before!

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Great update!

Great photos!

It's awesome that you didn't have to pay for the bike rentals.  I've never heard of that being an amenity for Club Level guests, so maybe that was more pixie dust for you.  Speaking of pixie dust, I should have mentioned earlier that the last time the TCD gang visited Disneyland, we were upgraded to a Club Level room at the Grand Californian, but all we got in that deal was the room- not Club Level privileges.

Do they still issue gold KTTW cards for Club Level guests?  How do you prove that you are Club Level when you go to the lounge?

I think that the mural you noticed at Epcot is a copy of a portion of one of Herb Ryman's Epcot paintings.  I think it is new-ish, as I don't remember it being in that spot.  They had a Herb Ryman exhibit at the new Epcot International Festival of the Arts this year, and they also had a giant paint-by-numbers mural similar to this work that they let guests paint during the Festival.  It was during the Festival that I noticed the mural you photographed.  But, it could have been there for a long time, and I never noticed it.

TCD

[shoreline99 137]

1 hour ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Great update!

Great photos!

It's awesome that you didn't have to pay for the bike rentals.  I've never heard of that being an amenity for Club Level guests, so maybe that was more pixie dust for you.  Speaking of pixie dust, I should have mentioned earlier that the last time the TCD gang visited Disneyland, we were upgraded to a Club Level room at the Grand Californian, but all we got in that deal was the room- not Club Level privileges.

Do they still issue gold KTTW cards for Club Level guests?  How do you prove that you are Club Level when you go to the lounge?

I think that the mural you noticed at Epcot is a copy of a portion of one of Herb Ryman's Epcot paintings.  I think it is new-ish, as I don't remember it being in that spot.  They had a Herb Ryman exhibit at the new Epcot International Festival of the Arts this year, and they also had a giant paint-by-numbers mural similar to this work that they let guests paint during the Festival.  It was during the Festival that I noticed the mural you photographed.  But, it could have been there for a long time, and I never noticed it.

TCD

Thanks, TCD!

I remember that the TCD crew got the club level upgrade at the Grand Californian, but I thought you got the whole package - didn't you run into Beau Bridges in the lounge there? Either way, that's a beautiful hotel as well - it was designed by the same architectural firm that did the Wilderness Lodge (and villas).

The bikes were a great amenity, and there were actually quite a few people taking advantage of the bike rental at WL even on a hot day. We still had to fill out a rental slip and liability waiver, but there was no charge.

No separate KTTW cards - magic bands worked for the elevator, and we were never asked to prove that we were club level at the lounge, although we got to know the WL 'plaids' pretty well by the end of the week. There were signs saying the lounge was for old faithful club guests only, if I recall, but nothing else. We were talking with a couple in the elevator whose family was staying on another floor, and they had all just left the lounge, so they may need to tighten that up a bit, lol.

I figured you would remember if that mural had been there a long time, but I couldn't remember seeing it before. It's a nice touch.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

16 minutes ago, shoreline99 said:

I remember that the TCD crew got the club level upgrade at the Grand Californian, but I thought you got the whole package - didn't you run into Beau Bridges in the lounge there? Either way, that's a beautiful hotel as well - it was designed by the same architectural firm that did the Wilderness Lodge (and villas).

That was another trip when we hung out with Beau Bridges in the club.  Good memory.  That was our first time staying in the Grand Californian.  One of the girls got a CM discount on that room, but it still cost a small fortune.  We got our money's worth in the lounge. It was a later trip where we got the room upgrade, but no club privileges.

 TCD

[shoreline99 137]

A short update just to finish up our day at EPCOT. Thanks again for following along!

After making a few stops to pick up some gifts for family in a few of the pavilions, we decided to grab a bite in a place in the one pavilion that we had never eaten before - Italy. I know there are people here that love Via Napoli, but that wasn't where we were heading.

We had heard good things about Tutto Italia, and especially the wine cellar, so we stopped there to see if there was a table available. There was, and the a/c was certainly welcome in the heat.

The Tutto Gusto Wine Cellar is a lounge adjacent to Tutto Italia, and even though it's on the same level it feels like you are in the basement. La Cava has a similar feel, but this is definitely more upscale.

Some of the seating is low, and we were brought to a small setee with a low table near a fireplace. It was pretty cozy, and the tables around us filled up quickly.

The menu tends more towards small plates, although some of the same items that they have in the main restaurant are available here. Anyone that likes a charcuterie or cheese plate would definitely enjoy the selections. The offerings are priced about the same as some of the other similar restaurants.

We split a caprese salad (the only disappointment we had with the meal was the tomatoes, as you can see they were not much better than grocery store hothouse tomatoes, but the cheese was creamy and delicious) and one of the cheese plates. All of the cheese we had there was fantastic, and we each had a glass of wine to go with it.

With a great vibe and wonderful service, I definitely think we will be back to try out a few other items and another glass of wine. I'd recommend it for a date or a pre- or post- dinner stop, not really a place for kids though.

from there we made our way around the other pavilions, heading towards Germany and Norway. Glad to see the trolls are still around!

The three caballeros were awash in flowers and all kids of hot peppers, including ghost peppers and carolina reapers. I was surprised that they had those on display, near where someone could effectively reach over and grab one...

The sun was dropping, and as we headed toward the front of the park I was able to grab a couple fo great sunset shots:

One more, I've always liked this canopy by the pin trading booth

We hopped the express bus over to the Magic Kingdom to catch Wishes, as it is ending (tonight, actually).

The park wasn't that crowded, and we were able to walk into the Haunted Mansion, but the ride stopped and it looked like it might be a long delay so we bailed out to watch the fireworks from behind the castle. Glad we didn't wait any longer:

The park was pretty empty, and we strolled back around through Frontierland and into Adventureland. We had paper return passes that we had been gifted for Pirates by some friends that had been there a few weeks prior, so we rode that then headed for the park exit. Sad to report that Johnny Depp was not in Florida that week.

We took the launch back to WL, then a last look at the castle before bed. This week was flying by:

Tomorrow was an early day, and I had a few more interesting tours that I'll share with you in the next post.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Great update!  I really like the sunset photos.

That Express Transportation seems pretty awesome. Hopping from Epcot to the MK is a bit of a hassle- especially right before Wishes.  I'm glad that you saw it for a last time.  Tonight is the first performance of the new fireworks show, Happily Ever After.

TCD

[shoreline99 137]

The alarm Friday morning came way too early, and I was going to have to schlep in to the OCCC again.

I grabbed some coffee at the lounge (we were up and out before breakfast was served), and thankfully they had to go cups.

Lots of activity in the smokehouse this morning. One thing I learned on this trip early on was that the garbage man arrives at 4:30 AM, so you may not want to leave your window or door open all night.

A grey day over the MK, but that would burn off soon enough.

Sunrise over old faithful:

The ride in to the convention center was quick at that time of the day, and I was on my way to our next stop before I knew it - we were headed to Celebration, for a guided tour with three local architects.

For those of you that don't know what Celebration is, it was originally part of the Reedy Creek purchase by the WDC , and is located south of I-4 and FL 192. It was developed in the early 90's, when Michael Eisner was running the Walt Disney Company. Part of the decision to develop this property as a new town was that the area was effectively cut off from the rest of the property by the Interstate, as well as the amount of wetlands and swampland in that portion of the property making it implausible to put any sort of resort or theme park in that area. The master plan for the Town took several years to develop, and ground was broken in 1994.

All the residential architecture is based on a pattern book that was put together as part of the master plan, which determines the styles and other aspects of the town development.  If anyone is interested, the current pattern books are available on the Town web site, here: http://www.celebration.fl.us/town-hall/community-standards/

The bus let us off at the steps, at the end of Market Street, by the main shopping district. All the retail in the town is small, with all the big stores just outside on 192.

All of the commercial buildings in Celebration were designed by well-known architects, so I'm sure you will recognize some of the names as we walk around.

The Bohemian Hotel, designed by Graham Gund.

The Celebration movie theatre, by Cesar Pelli:

This theatre is managed by AMC but has been closed for several years. The contract to run the theater was awarded to AMC as a contingency for them to operate the big theatre at Disney Springs, but apparently there is a loophole in the contract and there was no minimum amount of time the theatre had to operate. After losing money there for several years, AMC closed the theatre and is refusing to renegotiate the contract. The town is trying to do something about it, but no luck so far.

Celebration is basically a giant homeowner's association, so there is also a clubhouse and common recreation area.

Part of the allure of the town is the varied housing types - multifamily condos, single family homes and townhouses. There are roughly 5300 housing units in the town now, in 5 different 'neighborhoods', and the town is zoned for up to 7500 units.

All of the architectural detailing is delineated in the pattern book(s), and is all fairly traditional:

SunTrust Bank Building by Robert Venturi (Venturi Scott Brown)

Celebration Avenue - retail on the first floor and condos above. There are no short-term rental units allowed in the Town. Much of the downtown commercial property is owned by a few holding companies, and the town is having difficulty getting the companies to keep up some of the buildings as repairs are made - an example is the lovely 6x6 pressure treated posts on these porches instead of nicely detailed columns.

One of several churches in Celebration:

A walk through one of the residential neighborhoods:

Pocket garden:

Views up and down Water Street, which turns into Market Street. Here you can see the different types of housing all in one area. The Town was developed according to the school of 'New Urbanism' planning, which produced other developments like Seaside (Where the Truman Show was filmed).

Savannah Square

Founder's Park

Thanks for reading this far! a few more of the major buildings in Celebration:

Bank of America building, by Charles Moore

The original town hall, by Philip Johnson, and the Celebration Post Office, by Michael Graves (who also designed the Swan and Dolphin hotels):

Much of the Market Street downtown was designed by Robert Stern, who also did the Boardwalk and Grand Floridian hotels:

This restaurant sits where the original town market was, there is no grocery store in the downtown any more - as i mentioned before, most of the major retail is out on the main surrounding roads. I guess Market Street is a misnomer now.

All in all it was a neat tour to see the area and the town, and it truly feels like a community but I couldn't see myself living there. It seems like you could be anywhere - that this town could have been picked up and plopped anywhere along the coast, with no reflection of the surrounding area. And it does feel like the Truman Show!

Celebration is no longer part of Disney, although the company still controls a lot of things in the area. It's part of Osceola county and has a K-8 school in the town, but I believe the high school is in Kissimmee. It is definitely going through some growing pains, but seems to be thriving as a community.

Sorry for the deluge of photos and info, I hope some people enjoy the report! I'd be happy to answer questions about the tour or Celebration. Next, we're off to Disney Springs!

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

Great post Shoreline!

Was this an architectural conference?

Lot's of great photos and info about the architects.  I'm a big fan of Traditional Neighbor Developments but I'm not sure I could live in one either.  Back in my engineering days I worked on a large scale TND, Ave Maria, FL but the housing crisis hit as it was getting started and they have been slow to build out since.  I do hear they are making progress now though.  I think the TND concept is great but you are very close to your neighbors.  

On the other hand I love Seaside, FL!  I think they thrive because of the beach and the short term rentals, and they are much smaller so the town is easily walkable.  Oh and Seaside came first, they were first established in 1981.

WBI

[shoreline99 137]

Yeah, it was the AIA convention. I could have written five posts just on all the info we got from the tours.

Celebration is a great example of the New Urbanist style, but like I said it's about the location. Seaside has the sea, Celebration has Disney, but only sort of. 

Its also going through a lot of growing pains right now, there are lots of gaps and overlaps in authority and oversight, who is responsible for what, etc.. For example, there is an ongoing dispute with the OC fire department on apparatus access and the narrow streets of Celebration (which is one of the tenets of New Urbanist planning - traffic calming and pedestrian ways). The theatre is another. Maintenance and replacement materials of the retail downtown. The list goes on. 

In general, Disney is what brought the people there and to some extent it's what keeps them there. The schools are good, the hospital is great (run by the Seventh Day Adventists), and it definitely feels like you're in a bubble compared to the surrounding areas. 

In fact, Philip Swift put together a decent documentary on Celebration called 'The Bubble', which was skewed more towards an exposé but is an interesting look at some aspects of the lifestyle. 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

We lived for a year in a New Urbanist community that was designed by DPZ, the same firm that designed Seaside and many other similar communities. Interesting experience... one that ultimately wasn't for us but I understand the allure for those who enjoy it. Having 10 feet between homes is something i couldn't get used to. Being able to borrow a cup of sugar from your neighbor without either of you stepping foot outside your homes is kind of unique though. :D

Sent from my handheld doohickie

[LONE-STAR 370]

24 minutes ago, DaveInTN said:

We lived for a year in a New Urbanist community that was designed by DPZ, the same firm that designed Seaside and many other similar communities. Interesting experience... one that ultimately wasn't for us but I understand the allure for those who enjoy it. Having 10 feet between homes is something i couldn't get used to. Being able to borrow a cup of sugar from your neighbor without either of you stepping foot outside your homes is kind of unique though. :D

Sent from my handheld doohickie

To get to my neighbor I take the golf cart.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

To get to my neighbor I take the golf cart.

Yeah... that house had 10 feet between neighbors. Now there are 10 acres. Lol

Sent from my handheld doohickie

[shoreline99 137]

I had the pleasure of meeting Andres Duany and his wife/partner Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk back in like 1991 and toured their offices in Miami. The NU school of thought was all the rage then and they were crazy busy. Very smart people and great planners. It has been interesting to see which of their concepts have lasted and have become mainstreamed, and which have not worked out and have fallen by the wayside. 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

I had the pleasure of meeting Andres Duany and his wife/partner Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk back in like 1991 and toured their offices in Miami. The NU school of thought was all the rage then and they were crazy busy. Very smart people and great planners. It has been interesting to see which of their concepts have lasted and have become mainstreamed, and which have not worked out and have fallen by the wayside. 

Their designed development that we lived in is Westhaven in Franklin, TN. Highly successful, in part because of a good design, also a very good developer, but also because it sits in the fastest growing job market in the US.

Sent from my handheld doohickie

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Thanks for sharing the photos and details from your tour of Celebration.

It's been several years since I've visited there, and I didn't know that the movie theater had closed or that the retail area was not doing well.

I think I've shared before that the TCD gang has been visiting Seaside, FL since the late 90's.  For years, we would rent a cottage there for a week or two every summer.  To me, it really isn't a real community, as very, very few of the owners actually live in their homes.  They are by and far second or third homes of very wealthy people, and more than half of them are rented out as short-term vacation homes.

It's very interesting place to visit, but it's more of a resort than anything else.

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

Celebration was supposed to be like an old fashioned community/big city neighborhood, where everything you needed was withing walking distance.  But it seems like they decided to do the touristy deal before they opened in let a bunch of shops open that the locals really didn't need.  How many candle/aromatherapy/card shops does one street need.?

It's still fun to visit, one of the residential streets has a great Christmas light show, and they used to close Main Street for ice skating and a train ride.

[shoreline99 137]

1 hour ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

It's been several years since I've visited there, and I didn't know that the movie theater had closed or that the retail area was not doing well.

I think I've shared before that the TCD gang has been visiting Seaside, FL since the late 90's.  For years, we would rent a cottage there for a week or two every summer.  To me, it really isn't a real community, as very, very few of the owners actually live in their homes.  They are by and far second or third homes of very wealthy people, and more than half of them are rented out as short-term vacation homes.

 

46 minutes ago, Travisma said:

Celebration was supposed to be like an old fashioned community/big city neighborhood, where everything you needed was withing walking distance.  But it seems like they decided to do the touristy deal before they opened in let a bunch of shops open that the locals really didn't need.  How many candle/aromatherapy/card shops does one street need.?

That is one of the issues with the retail there, to address both of your points. It's a small community - restaurants do well, so do the stores that cater to tourists - but most residents shop at the larger retail areas outside Celebration. I would assume that it's hard to attract and retain chains that would lose money in that location.

Also, Celebration prohibits short term rentals, which would really increase traffic to the area if it were allowed.

We heard a lot of stories and anecdotes about both the good and the bad of living there and the challenges of the community.

Thanks to all still reading along, I know this isn't really a standard type of trip report!