Wilderness Homes - History

[OdysseusMontezuma 2]

First off, let me say that it is good to find a community of people who share, and likely exceed, my enthusiasm for FW. 

I have a question related to the history of the place: when did the Wilderness Homes become available for rental? Specifically, what year?

My mother says that we stayed in them as early as 1984. This would make sense, as my family stopped bringing our camper to FW in 1982, and we did stay there in the springs of '84 and '85. In 1986, we stayed in the 2600 loop, and that was the first time I remember staying in a Wilderness Home. If memory serves me correctly, the Fleetwood Pass area was not there prior to that time.

So, can anyone help shed some light on this situation? Not a terribly important question, but I appreciate any information from the Fiends to help fill this apparent gap in my memory.

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

Welcome!! Not sure when they were brought in, but I know they were starting to phase them out in 98-99 to bring in the Wilderness Cabins

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 9:01 PM, OdysseusMontezuma said:

First off, let me say that it is good to find a community of people who share, and likely exceed, my enthusiasm for FW. 

I have a question related to the history of the place: when did the Wilderness Homes become available for rental? Specifically, what year?

My mother says that we stayed in them as early as 1984. This would make sense, as my family stopped bringing our camper to FW in 1982, and we did stay there in the springs of '84 and '85. In 1986, we stayed in the 2600 loop, and that was the first time I remember staying in a Wilderness Home. If memory serves me correctly, the Fleetwood Pass area was not there prior to that time.

So, can anyone help shed some light on this situation? Not a terribly important question, but I appreciate any information from the Fiends to help fill this apparent gap in my memory.

Welcome!

That's quite a name you picked for yourself.

This is a topic that has been discussed here on the boards a few times.

Member Tim5055 has a document he received from a FW castmember that provides the following timeline:

Fort Wilderness opened November 19, 1971 on 750 acres between the Contemporary Resort and the Walt Disney World Village. At that time it had 231 camping sites including loops 100 - 600.

June 1973 added 481 sites, loops 700 - 1900

April 8, 1974 "Treasure Island" opened with a pirate theme

April 1974 Pioneer Hall opened

April 1976 Treasure Island renamed Discovery Island and became an accredited Zoological park

June 1976 added 113 sites, loops 2000 - 2100

June 1976 River Country opened

April 1979 added Creekside Meadow group camping area

December 1986 added 383 cabin sites, loops 2200 - 2800

June 2008 New "Premium" site level created with the conversion of existing sites

http://www.fortfiends.net/topic/1695-did-you-know-share-your-fort-facts/?do=findComment&comment=34566

According to that information, the cabin loops were not added until 1986.  Originally, there were Wilderness Homes on the cabin loops.  1986 makes sense, as those Wilderness Homes would have been around 15 years old when they replaced them with the current cabins.

Before the Wilderness Homes, there were rental travel trailers on the 500 loop and the 2100 loop.  The 500 loop was called Terry Trail on earlier Fort Wilderness maps, as the trailers for rent on that loop were Terry Travel trailers.  So, it's possible that you were in one of those in 1984.

Tim has a scan of the document on his website:

 

It's interesting to note that this 1991 document clearly describes two different kinds of trailers- four sleepers, which were on the 2100 and 2300 loops, and six sleepers, which were on part of the 2100 loop, and all of the rest of the cabin loops.

You can check it out along with some other historical Fort documents on Tim's site:

http://www.title-3.com/FWScans.htm

TCD

 

[OdysseusMontezuma 2]

Thanks for the welcome and the information!

I've had this name on a few different message boards over the years. Most of the other participants would call me 'Odie' or 'Ody'.

Thanks also for sharing that timeline. A lot of cool information there.

I had surmised that we were in a Terry trailer in '84 and '85, but I don't really remember what they looked like, other than that they may have been brown and had a sliding door. Anyway, I'll share this info with my mom to try to jog her memory.

Did anyone here stay in a Terry? Did they have a Murphy bed like the Wilderness Homes did?

One thing about the timeline...It might have been December 1985 for the opening of the Homes, as we stayed in 2600 for our Easter vacation in '86 (23 March to 4 April).

[Travisma 1,317]

We stayed in some sort of trailer at the Fort ages ago.  I'm pretty sure it was before they had then out in the cabin loops. Wish my memory was better.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

18 hours ago, OdysseusMontezuma said:

Thanks for the welcome and the information!

I've had this name on a few different message boards over the years. Most of the other participants would call me 'Odie' or 'Ody'.

Thanks also for sharing that timeline. A lot of cool information there.

I had surmised that we were in a Terry trailer in '84 and '85, but I don't really remember what they looked like, other than that they may have been brown and had a sliding door. Anyway, I'll share this info with my mom to try to jog her memory.

Did anyone here stay in a Terry? Did they have a Murphy bed like the Wilderness Homes did?

One thing about the timeline...It might have been December 1985 for the opening of the Homes, as we stayed in 2600 for our Easter vacation in '86 (23 March to 4 April).

You are welcome.  I love to discuss the history of the Fort.

Speaking of which, I have no doubt that the document Tim has posted on his website is something that was prepared by someone at Disney.  But, I question the accuracy of some of the facts on that sheet.

For example, it says that the Fort originally opened with the 100-600 loops, but we've looked at this early map before, and it only shows five original loops:

Here's another old map- supposedly from 1973:

This one shows 11 loops, and seems to contradict the 1991 fact sheet that says the 700-1900 loops were all added in June 1973.

This is a photo of one of the Terry rental trailers on the 2100 loop:

TCD

[disneylitch......Debbie 61]

We stayed in one of the Terry trailers years ago.  It was our second visit to Disney World.  On our first visit, opening year, we stayed off property.  My parents said they would never do that again.  Since then, except for our honeymoon at The Contemporary, we have stayed at The Fort.

[OdysseusMontezuma 2]

Thanks for sharing those maps.  They are a great snapshot of the history of the place.

It's also fun to follow loop 500's identity crisis.

I wonder if Big Bear/Little Bear was still numbered 1400 even though it opened before the 1100-1300 loops.

My dad says they stayed in 800 in 1972. They might have had it open by then, or he might be confusing it with another vacation. My family did stay at the Fort most years between 1972 and 1991.

[OdysseusMontezuma 2]

On 4/26/2017 at 10:10 AM, Tri-Circle-D said:

 

 

 

It's interesting to note that this 1991 document clearly describes two different kinds of trailers- four sleepers, which were on the 2100 and 2300 loops, and six sleepers, which were on part of the 2100 loop, and all of the rest of the cabin loops.

You can check it out along with some other historical Fort documents on Tim's site:

http://www.title-3.com/FWScans.htm

TCD

 

I never got to see the four sleepers. The six sleepers had a back bedroom with a queen and twin bunks, and a kitchen/living room with a Murphy bed. I would guess that the four sleepers just had the back bedroom and perhaps a smaller living room that couldn't fit the Murphy bed.

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

On 4/28/2017 at 9:59 AM, OdysseusMontezuma said:

I never got to see the four sleepers. The six sleepers had a back bedroom with a queen and twin bunks, and a kitchen/living room with a Murphy bed. I would guess that the four sleepers just had the back bedroom and perhaps a smaller living room that couldn't fit the Murphy bed.

If I remember correctly, the 4 sleepers did not have the bunks in the back bedroom, but still had the Murphy bed. We started going to WDW in 97, just a couple of years before they swapped out the homes, and I was really interested in staying there, but even back then, they were expensive, so we started at the Value resorts.

[OdysseusMontezuma 2]

4 hours ago, mouseketab.....Carol said:

If I remember correctly, the 4 sleepers did not have the bunks in the back bedroom, but still had the Murphy bed. We started going to WDW in 97, just a couple of years before they swapped out the homes, and I was really interested in staying there, but even back then, they were expensive, so we started at the Value resorts.

Yea verily. In the eighties, we would have one family of six in each home.

By 2003, last time I stayed in the cabins, we had to split it between six adults.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

4 hours ago, mouseketab.....Carol said:

If I remember correctly, the 4 sleepers did not have the bunks in the back bedroom, but still had the Murphy bed. We started going to WDW in 97, just a couple of years before they swapped out the homes, and I was really interested in staying there, but even back then, they were expensive, so we started at the Value resorts.

We started to stay in the Wilderness homes from 1995 on- a couple of times per year, right up until when they started to replace them with the cabins.  My recollection is that all of them were the same- I don't remember any four sleepers- they all had bunk beds and a full bed in the bedroom and a murphy bed in the living room.  So, I'm perplexed by what that 1991 document is referring to.

TCD

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

3 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

We started to stay in the Wilderness homes from 1995 on- a couple of times per year, right up until when they started to replace them with the cabins.  My recollection is that all of them were the same- I don't remember any four sleepers- they all had bunk beds and a full bed in the bedroom and a murphy bed in the living room.  So, I'm perplexed by what that 1991 document is referring to.

TCD

I vaguely remember seeing something online, perhaps pictures, and/or something on a website, and I believe there were some cabins that did not have the bunks. Since you were a family of 5 at that time, it just wasn't something on your radar.

[momof3kids-Yvonne 596]

I know the first time we stayed at FW was June 1985. We stayed in what I guess was a Wilderness home then. I remember there was a bedroom in the back with a bed as well as a set of bunks, there was a galley style kitchen, a bathroom and the living area. With I believe a Murphy bed. I remember the year specifically; because, my parents split up that year and my grandparents took my siblings and I to WDW so we would not have to be home during the transition.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

16 hours ago, mouseketab.....Carol said:

I vaguely remember seeing something online, perhaps pictures, and/or something on a website, and I believe there were some cabins that did not have the bunks. Since you were a family of 5 at that time, it just wasn't something on your radar.

No, they would have been on my Radar- the twins were sleeping in Pack and Plays for the first of our visits, so a 4 sleeper would have been fine for us, and I assume that they were cheaper, so I would have considered staying in one if they were an option at the time.  I don't think 4 sleepers were offered in 1995 and after.

TCD

[ftwildernessrick 10]

I remember in the 80's the cabins were scattered throughout the loops. They were basically small mobile homes made by Fleetwood. Also, if there were none available, you could rent the campsite, and the local dealer who maintained the ones already there, would bring one to your site and hook it up. You just paid him for the trailer rental.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:38 PM, ftwildernessrick said:

I remember in the 80's the cabins were scattered throughout the loops. They were basically small mobile homes made by Fleetwood. Also, if there were none available, you could rent the campsite, and the local dealer who maintained the ones already there, would bring one to your site and hook it up. You just paid him for the trailer rental.

I have a hard time believing this.

I've never heard of cabins being scattered throughout the loops.  I've never seen any photos or anything posted about such a thing anywhere.  What I hear was the opposite- that the 500 loop was named Terry Trail because it was full of Terry travel trailers (which was a Fleetwood product).

And where would there have been a "local dealer" who would drop everything to bring a cabin to a campsite?  The Wilderness Homes were plumbed to water and sewer on the sites, and were not moved around.  How would this "local dealer" handle linens, pot and pans and housekeeping?  I don't see how that could work.

TCD

[ftwildernessrick 10]

Got me digging through my old photos and starting on my videos. These "cabins" were nothing like the current ones. The only rustic nature part of it was the exterior was a dark colored wood. They had 2 axles under them. They just stuck them on a regular campsite. They were not very big, maybe 12 feet wide and maybe 35 long. Some of the loops had 2 in each. I assume they removed the tires and blocked them up. I remember they were skirted with a very small deck with stairs. Only reason I knew they would move one in was because a friend of mine trailer caught fire 3 weeks prior to our trip, I think the summer of 1984. He called to see if he could rent one of the cabins, but none were available. But they put him in touch with whoever handled the cabins and they put one on his site. Same type, but had tires still on it and they brought a set of metal and wood stairs like you see on some mobile homes. 

I am sending him an email to see if he took photos of it.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

13 hours ago, ftwildernessrick said:

Got me digging through my old photos and starting on my videos. These "cabins" were nothing like the current ones. The only rustic nature part of it was the exterior was a dark colored wood. They had 2 axles under them. They just stuck them on a regular campsite. They were not very big, maybe 12 feet wide and maybe 35 long. Some of the loops had 2 in each. I assume they removed the tires and blocked them up. I remember they were skirted with a very small deck with stairs. Only reason I knew they would move one in was because a friend of mine trailer caught fire 3 weeks prior to our trip, I think the summer of 1984. He called to see if he could rent one of the cabins, but none were available. But they put him in touch with whoever handled the cabins and they put one on his site. Same type, but had tires still on it and they brought a set of metal and wood stairs like you see on some mobile homes. 

I am sending him an email to see if he took photos of it.

If you have any photos or video, I'd like to see it.  Because this is the first I have ever heard of each loop having a couple of cabins on it.  What you are describing sounds like the old Wilderness Homes, but they were not scattered around the campground like what you are remembering.  Except for the two on the 100 loop, all of the Wilderness Homes were on the current cabin loops.

The history of rental units at the Fort is described pretty well on the Imaginerding.com website, where they have photos of both the original Airstream units and the later Terry Trailers:

___________________________________

Fort Wilderness Trailers

Fort Wilderness Trailers

I ran across this article showcasing the new Fort Wilderness Trailers. Well, new for 1977, that is. Did you ever get to stay in the Fort Wilderness trailers?

FORT WILDERNESS SETTING UP NEW TRAILERS

By: Vern Conner, EYES & EARS Area Reporter

In a contract with Fleetwood Enterprises, Fleetwood Trailers have become the official travel trailer of Walt Disney World, replacing the older Airstreams. Much like the Airstreams, the Terry Trailers will rent for up to seven-days at a time, and come equipped with color TV, stereo, pots, pans, dishes, dishwasher, and even daily maid service.

One big difference, however, will be in the size. The Terry Trailers are the largest available; they’re 35 feet long with a section that slides out to give greater living room and bedroom area.

---

In 1973, 10 new Airstream Trailers were delivered to Fort Wilderness. They slept six and cost $25.00 a night.

In the heart of Fort Wilderness, Bette Van Cleeck and Brer Fox welcome one of 10 shiny new Airstream travel trailers which will soon serve as wilderness hotel rooms for guests.

A caravan of 10 shiny new Airstream travel trailers have arrived at Fort Wilderness and soon will begin serving as mobile campground hotel rooms for our guests.

Now featured at Fort Wilderness, the luxury travel trailers come fully-equipped with plush carpeting, a complete line of household goods, dishes and even silverware.

Photo credits: http://www.imaginerding.com/2015/10/07/fort-wilderness-trailers/

Those units were replaced by the Wilderness Homes in the 1980's.  They looked like this:

Photo credit for those three photos: http://home.hiwaay.net/~jlspence/photogal.htm

Those Wilderness Homes were semi-permanently installed at each site, with electric, plumbing and sewer connected.  They were fully furnished,  the kitchens were stocked with dishes and utensils, and linens and towels were provided through daily housekeeping.

That story your friend told you about them bringing a mobile home to a campsite in 1984 does not sound plausible to me.

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

I will have to poke around, not sure if we have any photos, but we stayed in a Disney "camper" sometime in the 80's.  Don't remember a lot about it, but I thought it was in one of the regular loops.  I don't think the cabin loops were there at that time, but I could be mistaken.

It's amazing what you try to remember years after you've done a memory dump

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

15 minutes ago, Travisma said:

I will have to poke around, not sure if we have any photos, but we stayed in a Disney "camper" sometime in the 80's.  Don't remember a lot about it, but I thought it was in one of the regular loops.  I don't think the cabin loops were there at that time, but I could be mistaken.

It's amazing what you try to remember years after you've done a memory dump

According to Tim5055's 1991 document, the "cabin loops," loops 2200-2800 weren't added until December 1986:

But, prior to that, the 500 loop (then called Terry Trail) and the 2100 loop had semi-permanently installed Terry travel trailers on them.  I have never seen or heard of there being mobile homes scattered around all of the loops. I don't believe that was ever the case.

That reminds me- the main road the travels through the cabin loops was originally called Fleetwood Pass.  It was later changed to Peacock Pass.

TCD

[momof3kids-Yvonne 596]

Looking at the what you shared above showing the Wilderness Homes, I am positive that is what we stayed in during our first stay. As I stated before that was June 1985.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

8 minutes ago, momof3kids-Yvonne said:

Looking at the what you shared above showing the Wilderness Homes, I am positive that is what we stayed in during our first stay. As I stated before that was June 1985.

That is interesting, because it predates by a year and a half the December, 1986 opening date of the 2200-2800 loops listed on that 1991 document from Tim5055.

One possible explanation is that they built and opened the Wilderness Home loops one at a time. It could have taken them a year and a half to do that.  And,that is how they handled the conversion from Wilderness Homes to the current Wilderness Cabins- one loop at a time over a prolonged period- I think it took them a couple of years.  Or, maybe the trailers on the 2100 loop were swapped out for Wilderness Homes before they even started with the construction of the new loops.

TCD

[ImDownWithDisney 342]

I seem to remember the new homes followed by the new loops. Its a little vague because we never stayed in them, but I think they did upgrade then add the loops.

[OdysseusMontezuma 2]

6 hours ago, momof3kids-Yvonne said:

Looking at the what you shared above showing the Wilderness Homes, I am positive that is what we stayed in during our first stay. As I stated before that was June 1985.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Do you remember if it was back in the area of the current cabins, or in one of the camper loops?

Our first stay in the Fleetwood Pass area was March, 1986. We were at the Fort the previous spring, but I don't recall staying in a Wilderness Home. I'm pretty certain that the Fleetwood Pass area was not there, or at least not accessible to guests.

My mom, however, recalls staying in a Wilderness Home, or at least some camper with a Murphy bed, as early as 1984. 

If I can find the 1986 vacation video, I will check to see if there is any evidence of us being wowed by the new accommodations.