shoreline99 137 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Travisma said: Probably, but we will never know. Now another possibility. Disney wants the 5 Star clientele those 1/2% ers that spend without blinking an eye, but they didn't want to bother building, staffing, and maintaining a 5 star place. Four Seasons is close enough for the people to spend spend spend at WDW, then get coddled by someone elses workers. Disney looses out on the room $$ and some dining $$ but they get the best of both worlds. This. I think, however, that they didn't realize exactly how lucrative that small market is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avatab.... Steve 124 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 42 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said: Disney thought (and I have to admit that I did too) that there wasn't a market for an ultra-luxury resort on their property. The Four Seasons has proven that wrong, and now Disney regrets the cash grab. TCD Exactly. And I would have said the same thing then. If anyone is going to pay that big a premium for a WDW hotel room it would HAVE to be within spitting distance of the Magic Kingdom/Monorail Loop/etc. As you say, we were all wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tri-Circle-D 2,059 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 On the subject of a substantial renovation of the Grand Floridian, it is interesting to note that Disney is in the process of completely upgrading all of the guest rooms at their current flagship hotel in California, the Grand Californian: Reimagining Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa at the Disneyland Resort by Michael Ramirez, Public Relations Manager, Disney Destinations Today, I am pleased to share details surrounding the exciting renovation currently underway at Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa at the Disneyland Resort! The most extensive refurbishment since its opening, Walt Disney Imagineering has developed an impressive plan that not only elevates the premium hotel experience, but also brings a modern approach to the Arts & Crafts design style. The hotel-wide refresh will include reimagining all guest rooms, pool areas and the concierge-level Craftsman Club as well as new furniture for the lobby. Recently named a AAA Four Diamond hotel by the Automobile Club of Southern California for the sixteenth year in a row, Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa opened in 2001 as a deluxe retreat capturing the romantic spirit of California’s Arts & Crafts movement in the early 20th century. For our first sneak peek, here’s a closer look at the enhancements to the guest rooms: Guest rooms will be completely redesigned to create a fresh sense of luxury. Every single element will be new—from the floors and walls to the furnishings, beddings and linens as well as upgraded bathrooms. Upon entry, you’ll notice hardwood flooring transition into soft, bright-toned carpeting. The room decor is a contemporary take on the Arts & Crafts style featuring all-new furniture made of natural oak, specially designed for each room, as well as California-inspired artwork created by artists and Imagineers, including beautiful headboard walls with wood inlay designs featuring orange trees and Chip ‘n Dale! Guests with a sharp eye will catch other uniquely Disney details throughout these newly refreshed rooms. Refurbishments are well underway at Disney’s Grand Californian Hotel & Spa and guests will begin enjoying the first phase of refreshed guest rooms soon. The multi-phase roll-out is expected to be completed by the end of 2017. Stay tuned for more updates and progress on the other hotel elements on the Disney Parks Blog! https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2017/03/reimagining-disneys-grand-californian-hotel-spa-at-the-disneyland-resort/ What is interesting about this is that the Grand Californian was already a gorgeous resort, and has been in top-notch condition every time I've seen it. The prices there were already astronomical. I can't even imagine what a night there will cost in these new rooms. TCD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avatab.... Steve 124 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 59 minutes ago, Travisma said: So like I said Disney gets the big spenders but doesn't have to cater to them in their fancy hotel. I'm surprised they haven't redone the dam/water control in the canal behind the 1500/1600 loops, widened it, and made way for a private boat service (enclosed, air conditioned, full bar) between the 4 Seasons/Golden Oaks and the MK. I would bet that they (Four Seasons) would love to offer boat service to their guests, but I would also bet that Disney has or would said no. Disney probably assumed that the market for that hotel would be a few high-end Golfers only and now that Disney sees them as a competitor there is no way they will give them access to the Lake. I wonder if Disney was thinking the Hotel wouldn't do very well and they could buy it back cheap in a couple of years for a ready-made DVC resort? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lightbikes 73 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 3 hours ago, Tri-Circle-D said: Some of y'all have short memories. Disney entered into a letter of intent with The Four Seasons folks 10 years ago, in March, 2007, and they issued a press release bragging about it. This is what it said: LUXURY RESORT AND GOLF COMMUNITYAlong the northeast border of Walt Disney World Resort, Disney plans to convert its Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge golf courses into a luxury resort and golf community. The development will include a luxury hotel, 18-hole championship golf course, single- and multi-family vacation homes and fractional ownership vacation homes. Disney entered into a letter of intent with Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts to bring these two complementary and respected brands together to anchor a new world-class family resort destination. Four Seasons is dedicated to perfecting the travel experience through continuous innovation and the highest standards of hospitality. Currently with 74 hotels in 31 countries, and more than 25 properties under development, Four Seasons continues to lead the hospitality industry with innovative enhancements, making business travel easier and leisure travel more rewarding. The deeply instilled Four Seasons culture is personified in its employees people who share a single focus and are inspired to offer great service. Four Seasons currently operates two properties in Florida, Four Seasons Hotel Miami and the Four Seasons Resort Palm Beach. "The Resort will have all the ingredients needed to create memorable vacations: gracious and caring staff; beautiful surroundings that are thoughtfully designed; and services and amenities that make every experience one to cherish," said Kathleen Taylor, president and chief operating officer, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. "It's an honor to collaborate with Walt Disney World Resort on this project. Walt Disney's reputation for service excellence and exceptional family entertainment amenities is an ideal complement to the values of Four Seasons. Central Florida will be a valuable addition to our family of resorts, particularly since this is a destination our guests already enjoy." Once terms of the project are finalized, site work could begin later this year, with a hotel opening forecasted for 2010. The Four Seasons did not sneak in. Disney happily took their money and signed the land over to them. TCD Which just proves the bean counters are sailing the "ship of fools" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tri-Circle-D 2,059 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, lightbikes said: Which just proves the bean counters are sailing the "ship of fools" Maybe. Maybe not. No one knows how profitable the Four Seasons resort is. I am shocked at what they charge for rooms. Check out their website sometime and see. I checked to see what a regular room would cost for a one night stay next week. Over a thousand bucks! For one night! In a regular room! Do people actually stay there? I think they do, but I don't know who in their right mind would pay those prices to stay at that particular location. Another thing we don't know is what kind of financial relationship exists between the Four Seasons and Disney. They have a character breakfast there. They have a Disney ticket sales office there. Their restaurants show up on the Disney App for reservations and the dining plan. So there is some kind of ongoing relationship between Disney and them. Maybe Disney is making plenty of money from that relationship? TCD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
h2odivers...Ray 952 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Travisma said: I'm surprised they haven't redone the dam/water control in the canal behind the 1500/1600 loops, widened it, and made way for a private boat service (enclosed, air conditioned, full bar) between the 4 Seasons/Golden Oaks and the MK. If they do all that I'll be checking into the four seasons asap!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Travisma 1,317 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Tri-Circle-D said: I am shocked at what they charge for rooms. Check out their website sometime and see. I checked to see what a regular room would cost for a one night stay next week. Over a thousand bucks! For one night! In a regular room! Do people actually stay there? I think they do, but I don't know who in their right mind would pay those prices to stay at that particular location. Another thing we don't know is what kind of financial relationship exists between the Four Seasons and Disney. They have a character breakfast there. They have a Disney ticket sales office there. Their restaurants show up on the Disney App for reservations and the dining plan. So there is some kind of ongoing relationship between Disney and them. Maybe Disney is making plenty of money from that relationship? TCD You can get one thru Priceline for a measly $869 in mid April on a weekend ! Mid week it's only $779. BUT you get FREE internet! A couple of weeks ago I thought my wife saw them for the mid $600 range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
h2odivers...Ray 952 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I think Disney knew exactly what they were doing. They know how lucrative the "1% ers" are. They've been catering to them for years. They figured out it was more profitable to sell the land and let someone else develop it. Knowing the guest at the four seasons would still be coming to the parks and spending their money there. Also. It cost as much to stay at the grand Floridian and sometimes more than it does to stay at that four seasons. So I don't think Disney is worried about the competition. A room at the four seasons from September 16 for five nights cost $439 per night. it cost $582 per night at the grand Floridian. The week of Christmas December 24-31st 2017 it cost a little bit more at the four seasons averaging $879 per night where the grand Floridian is $830 per night Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shoreline99 137 Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 I'm still not clear on how all this selling off property doesn't dilute the brand or the RCID - I know there are two different towns in the RCID, don't these property owners (including Golden Oaks) get some kind of voting rights within the municipal framework? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
h2odivers...Ray 952 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 4 hours ago, shoreline99 said: I'm still not clear on how all this selling off property doesn't dilute the brand or the RCID - I know there are two different towns in the RCID, don't these property owners (including Golden Oaks) get some kind of voting rights within the municipal framework? I don't think a Four Seasons is going to dilute the Disney brand. I don't know what voting rights they might have. Even if 4 seasons has some voting rights Disney would still be the majority owner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tri-Circle-D 2,059 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 19 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said: Also. It cost as much to stay at the grand Floridian and sometimes more than it does to stay at that four seasons. So I don't think Disney is worried about the competition. I would have to think that Disney management is at least a little concerned about the competition. They have to look at the Four Seasons and regret that they are losing guests who otherwise would have stayed in a Disney Deluxe Resort. Yes, they can count on revenue from ticket sales and food and beverage purchases in the parks, but they are losing all the room revenue from these whales. As others have said above, I think someone in management underestimated the impact of the Four Seasons on the deluxe resorts. TCD Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Travisma 1,317 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 17 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said: I would have to think that Disney management is at least a little concerned about the competition. They have to look at the Four Seasons and regret that they are losing guests who otherwise would have stayed in a Disney Deluxe Resort. Yes, they can count on revenue from ticket sales and food and beverage purchases in the parks, but they are losing all the room revenue from these whales. As others have said above, I think someone in management underestimated the impact of the Four Seasons on the deluxe resorts. TCD Maybe they are trying to over-compensate the lost revenue by coming up with all the high priced extras at the parks. So they don't get $800 for renting a room (and I bet the profit margin isn't as high on those as a normal Disney room), but they get/got $700 for a tent, $50 for an ice cream riverboat ride, etc, etc. I can only guess the upkeep at the 4 Seasons must be $$$$. Those guests aren't sleeping a a 100 thread count sheet that has been laundered 200 times. And they dont have that weird looking Wilderness Cabin type furniture either. lightbikes 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tri-Circle-D 2,059 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, Travisma said: I can only guess the upkeep at the 4 Seasons must be $$$$. Those guests aren't sleeping a a 100 thread count sheet that has been laundered 200 times. And they dont have that weird looking Wilderness Cabin type furniture either. Right. Also, their payroll is probably much higher than Disney's. They hire and train quality people, and they don't staff their front-line positions with college kids getting paid minimum wage, who are only in town to get away from their schools up north for a semester. TCD lightbikes 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shoreline99 137 Posted March 10, 2017 Report Share Posted March 10, 2017 Which circles back to the reason they are looking to improve their housekeeping and upgrade the Grand Flo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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