Is The Grand Floridian Going to be gutted?

[AuburnJen 777]

Apparently there is a rumor about that the Grand Floridian is going to become a "modern luxury" resort.  Here are the details according to wdwnt.com

This rumor is out there, but seems to be picking up some steam…

t appears Chairman of Disney Parks and Resorts Bob Chapek is not a big fan of the current Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort and Spa, Walt Disney World’s flagship hotel and often most expensive per night. Similar to the recently initiated shakeup in housekeeping for Disney World, Chapek feels as if the Four Seasons Resort Orlando is putting them to shame when it comes to what a luxury resort on-property should be. So, what’s the solution? To completely gut the 28-year-old Magic Kingdom area resort, of course.

 

Obviously, many executives at Walt Disney World are trying to talk Chapek out of this massive remodeling as the Grand Floridian makes quite a bit of money and is often well-liked by those who stay there. One of the proposed alternate plans would involve constructing a new flagship hotel for Walt Disney World just north of the Transportation and Ticket Center. Reportedly, they have had no luck in changing his mind as of yet and Chapek is still moving full speed ahead with his plan.

Should it come to fruition, all of the rooms and the lobby of the resort will be completely gutted and rebuilt with a more modern-luxury theme, perhaps along the lines of the new hotel being constructed at the Disneyland Resort.

As it stands now, this project may not even be in the design phase as of yet, but it seems as if it will come to fruition should Chapek remain at helm of Parks and Resorts for the foreseeable future.

article credit: wdwnt.com

[DaveInTN 3,247]

21 minutes ago, AuburnJen said:

One of the proposed alternate plans would involve constructing a new flagship hotel for Walt Disney World just north of the Transportation and Ticket Center.

What a great idea!  I think they should do that, and give it a Venetian theme.  

[shoreline99 137]

I can see re-doing the rooms and lobby, the hotel is approaching 30 years old and could use a facelift. That being said, the look in that hotel is pretty timeless, and anything they would want to do to 'update' it would undoubtedly make it more contemporary in design.

Chapek must have a real bug in his craw about the Four Seasons, as it's not a big stretch to see the link between 'improving mousekeeping' and 'let's update our own cash cow high end resort to keep up with the Jones's'. I'm assuming he's the one that has given his underlings carte blanche to institute all of these high-end (and not so high end, I'm looking at you no more large cups) money grabs we are seeing these days. Seemingly every day, something new is showing up to try to take money from people's pockets. Disney Springs is one big money grab, calculated to keep people from going over to City Walk or the nearby shopping areas...

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

This is such a crazy rumor.

But there might be something to it.

I always thought that it was nuts to build the Four Seasons resort, but it seems like they're doing fine and guests like it.

I totally can see that guests looking for a five star experience could be disappointed by the Grand Floridian.  That probably helps to drive business to the Four Seasons.

The Four Seasons is a self-inflicted wound to Disney.  They sold the land to the Four Seasons, and gave them that five star niche.

It doesn't make sense to me to completely gut the Grand Floridian and try to compete with the Four Seasons.  They would have to completely abandon the way they operate their deluxe resorts in order to do that.

The focus at WDW for the past decade has been building DVC rooms.  As with so many things, Disney dropped the ball here, and it's too late for them to try to compete with the Four Seasons.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if they try.

TCD

[djsamuel 322]

Can't imagine this happening, especially with the DVC building at the Grand being so new and matching the current Grand Floridian.  Of course with Chapek at the helm, anything is possible.  He's bringing back memories of Paul Pressler.

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

I like the theming of the Grand, so I think it's silly to try to make it look modern. 

Maybe Disney shouldn't have sold the property to the Four Seasons. I thought it could be an issue if they came in and charged the same for a better product. Plus, business travelers can use points to stay at the Four Seasons, I'm sure. Lots of people we know stay at the Swalphin because they use points. 

[Beckers 1,136]

Gotta say I'm anti modern and if anything needs to be gutted it's the contemptorary (don't stone me!). 

 

I get that they have nothing to even remotely compare to The Four Seasons but gutting the grand doesn't seem like the right way to solve that. 

[keith_h 420]

I don't see why they couldn't refurb the GF to be a 5 star with modern amenities and still keep the period look and feel. Just about any modern 5 star ends up looking like just about any other. I think keeping the GF a bit different would help them attract folks who would otherwise go to the Four Seasons.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

11 hours ago, keith_h said:

I don't see why they couldn't refurb the GF to be a 5 star with modern amenities and still keep the period look and feel. Just about any modern 5 star ends up looking like just about any other. I think keeping the GF a bit different would help them attract folks who would otherwise go to the Four Seasons.

Agreed. If you look at the Waldorf-Astoria in NYC.  They have been able to keep the vintage look and feel of the hotel and still deliver a great product. 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

I think it's a beautiful hotel... except for the dining hall where they have the character meal (1900 Park Fare), we've found that room to be worn and tired looking.  

[Duane 152]

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:34 AM, h2odivers...Ray said:

Agreed. If you look at the Waldorf-Astoria in NYC.  They have been able to keep the vintage look and feel of the hotel and still deliver a great product. 

Ray, when is the last time you have been to the Waldorf in NYC?   I was there several months ago and to honest, the "old girl" needs some TLC...  The lobby was beautiful and I'm sure the Tower rooms were nice, but the other rooms need some updating...  You know how woodwork looks after years and years of paint over paint, the bathroom tile had  cracks and stains... It just basically needed an update.

To me overall, Disney is beginning to get out over their skis on some of their updates...  The 2 examples that I can think of are the updates to Test Track and the new Paddlefish (Fultons Crab House) refurb.  I feel instead of giving these 2 places a refresh, they went a couple of steps too far...

The theming for TT was way over the top. Instead of adding new and updated cars and manufacturing equipment to show how cars are built, they went way into the future and killed the test track concept.  I know this has been discussed many time before around here.

The new update to the riverboat I think as well is too far into the future... I think I read somewhere that they are attempting to make the build not look like a riverboat, but something more of a modern yacht.  To me it looks to modern to fit the shape of the structure... 

I'm afraid if they try this approach to the GF, they will ruin the overall look and feel... I too think they can update and modernize and keep the original theming and atmosphere...

I know I sound like I am rambling, but hopefully you all get what I am trying to say...   

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

6 hours ago, Duane said:

Ray, when is the last time you have been to the Waldorf in NYC?   I was there several months ago and to honest, the "old girl" needs some TLC...  The lobby was beautiful and I'm sure the Tower rooms were nice, but the other rooms need some updating...  You know how woodwork looks after years and years of paint over paint, the bathroom tile had  cracks and stains... It just basically needed an update.

It was about 6-7 years ago   And most hotels will do a basic renovation about every 5 years.  Update the furniture and such.  And about every 10-12 years a major renovation.    Iirc,  the Waldorf did a major $120 million renovation in the late 90's and is actually shutting down for a major renovation this year  

 

But I think you missed my whole point. 

That hotel, the Waldorf, is about 100 years old and everytime they had a major renovation they kept its vintage charm.   Disney could do a major renovation and bring it up to 5-star standards.  And keep the charm that makes it such a wonderful resort  

If they will or not is the question.  

 

And as far as TT goes it is in Epcot.  And if I'm not mistaken Epcot was and is suppose to be about the future.  Not about how they are doing things now. But that's a whole other debate. 

[Duane 152]

Ray, I get what you are saying and do agree that if Disney is going to update the GF, they can certainly pull off bringing it up to date without changing the overall theme and atmosphere.

[jjbescher 17]

Duane, how was the food at Paddlefish (same or better than when it was Fulton's)?

[geoffdaddy 33]

On 2/1/2017 at 1:42 PM, Tri-Circle-D said:

This is such a crazy rumor.

But there might be something to it.

I always thought that it was nuts to build the Four Seasons resort, but it seems like they're doing fine and guests like it.

I totally can see that guests looking for a five star experience could be disappointed by the Grand Floridian.  That probably helps to drive business to the Four Seasons.

The Four Seasons is a self-inflicted wound to Disney.  They sold the land to the Four Seasons, and gave them that five star niche.

It doesn't make sense to me to completely gut the Grand Floridian and try to compete with the Four Seasons.  They would have to completely abandon the way they operate their deluxe resorts in order to do that.

The focus at WDW for the past decade has been building DVC rooms.  As with so many things, Disney dropped the ball here, and it's too late for them to try to compete with the Four Seasons.

But, it wouldn't surprise me if they try.

TCD

I would still like to know what the Four Seasons had on Disney... I can't imagine what sane reason they would have to give away such prime real estate to an outside developer, even if they paid good money for it.

.

 

 

[Travisma 1,317]

2 minutes ago, geoffdaddy said:

I would still like to know what the Four Seasons had on Disney... I can't imagine what sane reason they would have to give away such prime real estate to an outside developer, even if they paid good money for it.

.

 

 

I wonder if they sold the land directly to Four seasons, or did the Golden Oaks developer sell it to them?

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

4 hours ago, Travisma said:

I wonder if they sold the land directly to Four seasons, or did the Golden Oaks developer sell it to them?

Well it did include land that was owned by the golden oaks developers.  And the old golf course. So maybe Silverstein properties did have something on Disney. 

[Travisma 1,317]

10 hours ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

Well it did include land that was owned by the golden oaks developers.  And the old golf course. So maybe Silverstein properties did have something on Disney. 

Or, I doubt this happened, but just maybe Disney never thought someone would attempt to build a hotel on "their" property, and didn't put a provision in the sale of the land blocking a hotel.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

1 hour ago, Travisma said:

Or, I doubt this happened, but just maybe Disney never thought someone would attempt to build a hotel on "their" property, and didn't put a provision in the sale of the land blocking a hotel.

I agree with this, but a slight modification:   I'll bet that Disney never thought someone would build a Five-Star hotel on "their" property....

They probably assumed that for people to be willing to pay 5-Star rates that they would need to be right next to the MK / Monorail Loop.

I would be very surprised if Disney of all companies didn't have multiple provisions on the use of the property. So there must be more to the story.

 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Some of y'all have short memories.

Disney entered into a letter of intent with The Four Seasons folks 10 years ago, in March, 2007, and they issued a press release bragging about it.  This is what it said:

LUXURY RESORT AND GOLF COMMUNITY

Along the northeast border of Walt Disney World Resort, Disney plans to convert its Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge golf courses into a luxury resort and golf community. The development will include a luxury hotel, 18-hole championship golf course, single- and multi-family vacation homes and fractional ownership vacation homes.

Disney entered into a letter of intent with Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts to bring these two complementary and respected brands together to anchor a new world-class family resort destination.

Four Seasons is dedicated to perfecting the travel experience through continuous innovation and the highest standards of hospitality. Currently with 74 hotels in 31 countries, and more than 25 properties under development, Four Seasons continues to lead the hospitality industry with innovative enhancements, making business travel easier and leisure travel more rewarding. The deeply instilled Four Seasons culture is personified in its employees people who share a single focus and are inspired to offer great service. Four Seasons currently operates two properties in Florida, Four Seasons Hotel Miami and the Four Seasons Resort Palm Beach.

"The Resort will have all the ingredients needed to create memorable vacations: gracious and caring staff; beautiful surroundings that are thoughtfully designed; and services and amenities that make every experience one to cherish," said Kathleen Taylor, president and chief operating officer, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. "It's an honor to collaborate with Walt Disney World Resort on this project. Walt Disney's reputation for service excellence and exceptional family entertainment amenities is an ideal complement to the values of Four Seasons. Central Florida will be a valuable addition to our family of resorts, particularly since this is a destination our guests already enjoy."

Once terms of the project are finalized, site work could begin later this year, with a hotel opening forecasted for 2010.
 

The Four Seasons did not sneak in.  Disney happily took their money and signed the land over to them.

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

11 minutes ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

I agree with this, but a slight modification:   I'll bet that Disney never thought someone would build a Five-Star hotel on "their" property....

They probably assumed that for people to be willing to pay 5-Star rates that they would need to be right next to the MK / Monorail Loop.

I would be very surprised if Disney of all companies didn't have multiple provisions on the use of the property. So there must be more to the story.

 

Probably, but we will never know.

Now another possibility.  Disney wants the 5 Star clientele those 1/2% ers that spend without blinking an eye, but they didn't want to bother building, staffing, and maintaining a 5 star place.

Four Seasons is close enough for the people to spend spend spend at WDW, then get coddled by someone elses workers.

Disney looses out on the room $$ and some dining $$ but they get the best of both worlds.

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

1 hour ago, Travisma said:

Or, I doubt this happened, but just maybe Disney never thought someone would attempt to build a hotel on "their" property, and didn't put a provision in the sale of the land blocking a hotel.

My response was somewhat tongue-in-cheek  

 

I find it very unlikely that Disney thought no one would build on their property.   

Disney isn't that stupid.  Im willing to bet they knew that hotel was going to be built.  

Besides it's not unprecedented for a hotel to be on Disney property. That is owned and managed by an outside company. 

Swan & Dolphin are not owned or managed by Disney.  And guests there are provided the same amenyas disneynowned resorts. I.E. transportation, EMHs, etc. 

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

13 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Some of y'all have short memories.

Disney entered into a letter of intent with The Four Seasons folks 10 years ago, in March, 2007, and they issued a press release bragging about it.  This is what it said:

 

The Four Seasons did not sneak in.  Disney happily took their money and signed the land over to them.

TCD

 I must have been typing while you were posting. 

 

I may have short term memory lose because i don't remember reading or hearing that info Before.     But I may have. But it doesn't surprise me what Disney did with four seasons. It would've been surprising to me if they didn't know four seasons was going to build a hotel  

[Travisma 1,317]

So like I said Disney gets the big spenders but doesn't have to cater to them in their fancy hotel.

 

I'm surprised they haven't redone the dam/water control in the canal behind the 1500/1600 loops, widened it, and made way for a private boat service (enclosed, air conditioned, full bar) between the 4 Seasons/Golden Oaks and the MK.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Another bit of history that y'all probably never knew is that Disney had a complete set of plans drawn up to build a free-standing DVC resort on the Eagle Pines Golf Course.  This is more evidence of their decision to focus on building and selling DVC rooms.  The economy was not good and sales were sluggish, so they scrapped that plan and decided they would not develop the land.  The Eagle Pines and Osprey Ridge golf courses were not big moneymakers, so when the Four Seasons came sniffing around, Disney simply grabbed the cash. 

Disney thought (and I have to admit that I did too) that there wasn't a market for an ultra-luxury resort on their property.  The Four Seasons has proven that wrong, and now Disney regrets the cash grab.

TCD