Axle Ratings...

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Help me understand how these work please.  Talking with Grand Design this week, expressing our disappointed that their 5th wheel had such a low cargo capacity... the company came back and said they they were going to be adjusting the GVWR on the unit.  I asked if they were going to do this, by installing larger/stronger axles and he said no that the current axle could handle more weight.  When I asked if that was the case, why didn't they start with a larger GVWR...he didn't have an answer.

Now, I was looking at units on line this morning (different brands) and came across one with this information:

Hitch Weight	1953 lbs
Gross Weight	12353 lbs
Dry Weight	9717 lbs
Cargo Weight	2636 lbs

The thing is, they show a picture of the sticker that has the axle info...and this trailer has the same size axle (or so I'm guessing) as the GD as the sticker shows (if I'm reading this correctly) that each axle can carry 5200#.  So, with two axles, I would think the max weight would be 10,400#... but I must be missing something as this rig has the number above, with a gross weight allowable of 12,353# and GD was looking to bump theirs up from 9,995# to 10,995#.

 

What am I not understanding??

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

The axles can carry  10,400 lbs.

the hitch, on your truck, carries 1953lbs

add them together and you get 12,353 lbs. . 

 

Now take 12,353 minus the dry weight of the RV.  9717 lbs.  (Dry weight is what the RV weighs without any of your stuff, I.e. Clothes, dishes, etc.)

And you get the cargo weight. 2636 lbs. 

 

with out changing the axles the company would have to lighten the RV.   Use lighter materials to build it. Maybe use Formica counter tops instead of granite. Or put a smaller dinette that weighs less.  

 

Does that answer your question?

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

15 minutes ago, h2odivers...Ray said:

The axles can carry  10,400 lbs.

the hitch, on your truck, carries 1953lbs

add them together and you get 12,353 lbs. . 

 

Now take 12,353 minus the dry weight of the RV.  9717 lbs.  (Dry weight is what the RV weighs without any of your stuff, I.e. Clothes, dishes, etc.)

And you get the cargo weight. 2636 lbs. 

 

with out changing the axles the company would have to lighten the RV.   Use lighter materials to build it. Maybe use Formica counter tops instead of granite. Or put a smaller dinette that weighs less.  

 

Does that answer your question?

So the hitch weight is not carried on the axles?  The GD we were looking at, the tag shows the same axle rating (5200#)... so the camper and cargo is 10,400 max and I get the camper weight by dry weight minus the hitch weight?  Is that correct?

[JMSisko 0]

So the hitch weight is not carried on the axles?  The GD we were looking at, the tag shows the same axle rating (5200#)... so the camper and cargo is 10,400 max and I get the camper weight by dry weight minus the hitch weight?  Is that correct?

You are correct about the hitch weight not being carried by the axles. Your tow vehicle supports the hitch weight when connected and the front jacks support this weight when the tow vehicle is disconnected.

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[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Just now, JMSisko said:

You are correct about the hitch weight not being carried by the axles. Your tow vehicle supports the hitch weight when connected and the front jacks support this weight when the tow vehicle is disconnected.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hmmm... that's interesting.  

So, if this is the case... then I'm not understanding the cargo capacity on this one rig.  The axles are rates at 5200# each.  The GVWR on the unit is listed at 9995#.  Dry weight on the sticker was 9039#  and a cargo capacity on the little yellow sticker of 956#.  Dry weight plus cargo equals 9995#... which is under the 10,400# that the axles can carry and the hitch weight was listed (it was something like 1600#).   So, I don't get it.  Now... again, GD said they were going to bump up the GVWR to 10,995# without any modifications to the rig.

[JMSisko 0]

Hmmm... that's interesting.  

So, if this is the case... then I'm not understanding the cargo capacity on this one rig.  The axles are rates at 5200# each.  The GVWR on the unit is listed at 9995#.  Dry weight on the sticker was 9039#  and a cargo capacity on the little yellow sticker of 956#.  Dry weight plus cargo equals 9995#... which is under the 10,400# that the axles can carry and the hitch weight was listed (it was something like 1600#).   So, I don't get it.  Now... again, GD said they were going to bump up the GVWR to 10,995# without any modifications to the rig.

That is weird. We have a Grand Design trailer and it also had an error on the sticker for weight ratings, though ours was the other way. The sticker listed 7,000# axles, but the wheels were only rated for 6,400#. They are sending us a "revised sticker". Even with this we still have plenty of cargo capacity and have overall been pleased with GD. They typically are very responsive to customers. We had an axle seal issue and they paid quickly to replace all 4 brakes and axle seals.

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[Cortezcapt (Derek) 156]

Sounds like someone at GD made a math mistake with the weights, listed on the sticker.

[Duane 152]

Nacole, this is slightly off topic (who would ever guess that that would happen here), but by the time you get to the end of this "RV journey" you will be well positioned to either sell and/or service RV's, sell trucks, or run a successful campground!  You go and tell your husband to hug your neck every morning on behalf of all the husbands and men on this board... Not to no way dismiss the wives and women on this board, but your desire for knowledge and answers is awesome and very impressive!!

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

4 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

So the hitch weight is not carried on the axles?  The GD we were looking at, the tag shows the same axle rating (5200#)... so the camper and cargo is 10,400 max and I get the camper weight by dry weight minus the hitch weight?  Is that correct?

Yes the hitch weight is not carried the axles.  It's carried by your truck. 

2 - axles each carry 5200 lbs

5200 X 2 = 10,400

10,400lbs + 1953lbs = 12,353 lbs  

yout truck carries 1953lbs. So your RV can carry 12353 lbs. 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

5 minutes ago, Duane said:

Nacole, this is slightly off topic (who would ever guess that that would happen here), but by the time you get to the end of this "RV journey" you will be well positioned to either sell and/or service RV's, sell trucks, or run a successful campground!  You go and tell your husband to hug your neck every morning on behalf of all the husbands and men on this board... Not to no way dismiss the wives and women on this board, but your desire for knowledge and answers is awesome and very impressive!!

Haha... we've had that discussion before.  I get so frustrated with RV dealers who don't know their product; Tom always tells me to relax and let it go and while I'm never hateful about it, it truly frustrates me because goodness... people are spending a decent amount of money (in some cases A LOT of money) on a non-necessity item.  Know your stuff people!!  I really think it should be required of anyone working for an RV Manufacturer, dealership or even a campground...that you at least camp in a rig for 2-4 weeks.  Truly.  I think it should be part of your training, during those first 90 days of employment.  I believe we all are often surprised at just how little some of the "professionals" know.

If a group of Fiends were to ever join forces and open a small dealership and campground... that would be one awesome place to shop and stay.

 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Just now, h2odivers...Ray said:

Yes the hitch weight is not carried the axles.  It's carried by your truck. 

2 - axles each carry 5200 lbs

5200 X 2 = 10,400

10,400lbs + 1953lbs = 12,353 lbs  

yout truck carries 1953lbs. So your RV can carry 12353 lbs. 

Hmmm... 

Having a hard time here, because (as usual) each rig has it's pros and cons.  For the GD, one of the major cons was the listed cargo capacity.  I think the numbers are wrong... maybe if we order a new one, they will make the adjustments (on the sticker) as the rep said they would.  Then again, they need to come down to our pricing so... who knows.

Thanks for the info Ray.  Appreciate it. 

[DaveInTN 3,247]

36 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

If a group of Fiends were to ever join forces and open a small dealership and campground... that would be one awesome place to shop and stay.

 

Would it serve cinnamon rolls every morning?

[keith_h 420]

Hitch weight would be what some folks call pin weight or in the case of a bumper pull tongue weight. It is the weight of the trailer carried by the tow vehicle.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

21 minutes ago, DaveInTN said:

Would it serve cinnamon rolls every morning?

Ha... of course.  How could you even ask?

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

22 minutes ago, keith_h said:

Hitch weight would be what some folks call pin weight or in the case of a bumper pull tongue weight. It is the weight of the trailer carried by the tow vehicle.

Right.  I'm just confused on why if that weight (on a 5th wheel) is carried by the truck and not the trailer axles, why the limit on the cargo capacity does not reflect this. 

[Duane 152]

1 hour ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

Haha... we've had that discussion before.  I get so frustrated with RV dealers who don't know their product; Tom always tells me to relax and let it go and while I'm never hateful about it, it truly frustrates me because goodness... people are spending a decent amount of money (in some cases A LOT of money) on a non-necessity item.  Know your stuff people!!  I really think it should be required of anyone working for an RV Manufacturer, dealership or even a campground...that you at least camp in a rig for 2-4 weeks.  Truly.  I think it should be part of your training, during those first 90 days of employment.  I believe we all are often surprised at just how little some of the "professionals" know.

If a group of Fiends were to ever join forces and open a small dealership and campground... that would be one awesome place to shop and stay.

 

Its funny you should say this because in every situation whether it involves a large purchase of an item to getting service in a restaurant.  I often look at each situation and think to myself, if there are folks out there performing at levels where they know little to nothing of their craft or service and can make a living at it, then I will never starve or do without.

[dblr....Rennie 224]

When it comes to the weight issue some of us even have the rigs weighed to see how much is on each wheel to help distribute the weight better.

[keith_h 420]

31 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

Right.  I'm just confused on why if that weight (on a 5th wheel) is carried by the truck and not the trailer axles, why the limit on the cargo capacity does not reflect this. 

Because the GVWR is not based on axle capacity or how the weight is distributed alone. It is the structural strength of the frame and other load bearing components that determine that number along with the size of the axles and how the weight is distributed. Even the location of the trailer axles come into play as further back more weight would be placed on the tow vehicle whereas further forward would put more on the trailer. Axle location could also affect cargo capacity as the weight is shifted on the frame.

[dblr....Rennie 224]

Just now, keith_h said:

Because the GVWR is not based on axle capacity or how the weight is distributed alone. It is the structural strength of the frame and other load bearing components that determine that number along with the size of the axles and how the weight is distributed. Even the location of the trailer axles come into play as further back more weight would be placed on the tow vehicle whereas further forward would put more on the trailer. Axle location could also affect cargo capacity as the weight is shifted on the frame.

DRV is a good example of this now, they are moving the axles back farther to get a lighter pin weight, for folks towing with pick ups that is good for them but folks who tow with a HDT it makes the pin to light., but the pick up market is stronger so that's why they do that.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

29 minutes ago, keith_h said:

Because the GVWR is not based on axle capacity or how the weight is distributed alone. It is the structural strength of the frame and other load bearing components that determine that number along with the size of the axles and how the weight is distributed. Even the location of the trailer axles come into play as further back more weight would be placed on the tow vehicle whereas further forward would put more on the trailer. Axle location could also affect cargo capacity as the weight is shifted on the frame.

Gotcha...that's helpful.  Interesting that GD said they were going to adjust the GVWR, without making modifications   

 

27 minutes ago, dblr....Rennie said:

DRV is a good example of this now, they are moving the axles back farther to get a lighter pin weight, for folks towing with pick ups that is good for them but folks who tow with a HDT it makes the pin to light., but the pick up market is stronger so that's why they do that.

Didn't know that, about axle location and pin weight.  Interesting. 

[ependydad...Doug 176]

6 hours ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

Hmmm... that's interesting.  

So, if this is the case... then I'm not understanding the cargo capacity on this one rig.  The axles are rates at 5200# each.  The GVWR on the unit is listed at 9995#.  Dry weight on the sticker was 9039#  and a cargo capacity on the little yellow sticker of 956#.  Dry weight plus cargo equals 9995#... which is under the 10,400# that the axles can carry and the hitch weight was listed (it was something like 1600#).   So, I don't get it.  Now... again, GD said they were going to bump up the GVWR to 10,995# without any modifications to the rig.

Definitely smells like a mistaken sticker. I believe many of these stickers are generated by someone hand-typing values into a spreadsheet (and had that confirmed with the Sabre plant). My guess is they mis-typed it as 4,200 lb. axles to get the sticker to come out somewhat like what you see.

[ftwildernessguy 778]

I called Larry.  He'll be over in a minute.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

3 hours ago, ependydad...Doug said:

Definitely smells like a mistaken sticker. I believe many of these stickers are generated by someone hand-typing values into a spreadsheet (and had that confirmed with the Sabre plant). My guess is they mis-typed it as 4,200 lb. axles to get the sticker to come out somewhat like what you see.

Thanks.  You're probably right.  I think they may need a new "sticker" person 

 

 

[rtguy007 74]

8 hours ago, Duane said:

Nacole, this is slightly off topic (who would ever guess that that would happen here), but by the time you get to the end of this "RV journey" you will be well positioned to either sell and/or service RV's, sell trucks, or run a successful campground!  You go and tell your husband to hug your neck every morning on behalf of all the husbands and men on this board... Not to no way dismiss the wives and women on this board, but your desire for knowledge and answers is awesome and very impressive!!

Well put. I don't know a lot of women that care to understand all of these things like Nacole does. Heck I know a lot of my male friends that don't care about this stuff either. As they say if it works who cares. Some people don't get a safety issue until they become the statistic.

 

[PGHFiend 140]

Remember this....

A travel trailer puts approx 10 percent of its weight on the tow vehice 

A 5th wheel puts about 20 percent on the tow vehicle.  

If you max loaded the axles,  based on the design of a 5th wheel, you would have in your case,

5200 x 2= 10400

Plus 

10400 x 20% = 2080

Total = 12480 rolling down the road max. 

Every bit of weight you add to the camper is loaded onto the truck hitch weight at the same 20% rate.

Most rv manufacturers leave no room for error and depend on the 20 percent hitch weight to make the vehicle legal on the axles. You're doing good looking at campers with 8 lug 16 inch wheels with load e tires.