Dually

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Yes, I know there is no such thing as too much truck and yes, I know a few of you mentioned this might happen so... let's just get that out of the way

We are tossing around the idea of bumping to a 5th wheel.  Tom is also considering buying a newer truck with less miles.  Our current TV is a 2011 F250 with around 130k miles on it.  Our current rig is a 32' TT that, loaded, weighs around 7000 lbs.  It tows perfect.  IF we change to a 5'er, loaded weight will be around 13k to 13.5k lbs.  Thing is, Tom has a long commute to work and the diesel is his truck.  We do camp a lot (this year was around 60 nights); most of the trips are within 2 hours with minimal grade however... a few times a year, the drive is 6-12 hours (each way) and usually one of those trips is in the mountains.

Tom doesn't care for the look of the dually or the fact that parking will be even more difficult.  Add that, worse gas mileage and it's a hard choice.  We've seen A LOT of 5th wheels pulled by F250s and have spoken with 10-15 owners pulling and they've all said no problem to tow or stop (flat or mountains).  One owner we talked to, was actually pulling a 22k toy hauler with an F250.  What a fool 

 

Not sure if we'll make any changes as I actually really LOVE our camper.  It's super cute, easy to pull and put into spots and it does fit our family of 4.... we are only considering a change, because we do camp so much, and we'd like a larger living room and kitchen.  I don't know though.

 

Thoughts on the truck?

 

 

[weekender 5]

You are going to get a lot of opinions on this matter, but honestly do the math and figure out the capacities of your current truck to include payload, max tow capability and max combined weight.  What you will probably find is that you will run out of the payload # before anything else.  That payload # will include your hitch, pin weight of the 5th wheel, passengers, stuff, etc.  Some trucks include the weight of the driver so double check that.  In the end you will find that most 250's/2500's do not have enough payload capacity on paper to handle most 5th wheels unless they are the mid range/lighter weight units.  You will probably find that a 350/3500 will be needed.  As for a dually you may not need that unless you are going to the much bigger 5th wheels.  

 

Look around at campers you like and find the true empty weights then run the numbers to see what truck will pull it and stop it.  Don't rely on the camper sales person to be honest about towing as some of them think 150's/1500's can tow 5th wheels.

 

Now in practicality the newer Ford F250 and F350 are only slightly different in the spring package, rear block and rear axle.  Most have the same engine, same brakes, same features, etc.  We have a 2013 F250 4x4 Lariat FX4 with camper package.  With the camper package I have the same spring pack as the 2013 F350.  I added Firestone air bags as well so other than a slightly different rear axle our truck is essentially a F350.  With that said I know I exceed the payload # of the truck, but cannot justify buying an F350 to have a # on a paper saying that my payload has increased.  We tow a 2017 Heartland Torque Toy Hauler that is around 13,500 - 14K fully loaded.  We live in NW Georgia and tow to Stone Mountain, Gatlinburg, Disney, Panama City etc. and so far the truck has handled wonderfully.  While I know there are the weight "police" out there that feel that only a dually can handle a 5th wheel you at the end of the day need to decide what your truck can handle and what you are willing to risk for your family. 

 

Good luck in your search. 

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Thanks.  We have considered an F350 SRW, for the small increase in towing capabilities. This would add a small bump, without the size/ride of a dually (which we believe will be even more of a "truck" ride which will be tough of my husband's back... 3 back surgeries). 

[keith_h 420]

I work from the gross vehicle weights for trailers when I start calculating what I am buying (trailer of vehicle). This ensures I have enough capacity when the trailer is filled with the inevitable junk we all collect. So I would look at the gross pin weight of the 5th wheel and compare that to the available payload of your truck. Most trucks run out of payload before towing capacity. The payload sticker on the drivers side door pillar will have the max payload for your truck. You then subtract occupants and any other cargo to arrive at what you have left for the trailer. Another thing to be concerned about is the truck bed length. You need to make sure you have enough length so you don't hit the cab with the front of the trailer in a tight turn.

[bhall 115]

Towing capacity isn't your concern. Payload will be. Not intending to say "told you so" but from the start I recommended to you that if you were going to buy a diesel that you should skip the 250 and get a 350. The diesels have about 400-600 lbs less payload then their gas counter parts. I still regret not going up to the 3500 as an identically equipped 3500 as mine has 4000 lbs payload vs my 2,831 lbs on my 2500.

As for the ride being rough. In my experience that's a Ford flaw. We have 4 mostly new different 250s of different trim and suspension packages at my day job and all 4 are rough. I used to ride a rigid frame Harley that was a softer ride then these Fords. Once there has been some weight applied to them they settle down but running empty is tortuous to me to the point they I will run my own 2500 at my own expense instead of one of the company trucks. One trick to help with the rough ride is to decrease the pressure in the tires while running empty. That makes it so the trucks bounce less but they are still worse then my truck. That might reduce it to the amount of bounce you are accustomed to already.

Another thing to watch out for as already mentioned is the size of your bed. Look for a 5er that has recessed corners above the hitch. That will immensely improve your backing up experience. You also might need a sliding hitch but I hope your experience with one will be better then my current one. I have the 6.5' bed and I definitely need a slider because the front corners of my 5er are not recessed. My 5er also has an extended pin box on it which makes so that I can turn easier with a standard hitch but I still will hit my window. If I slide the hitch back it then makes it so that my pin box is a half inch from my tailgate and if I turn I hit the tailgate thusly negating the concept of the sliding hitch. A local RV tech looked at it for me and he said that camping world installed my rails about 2 inches closer to the tailgate then they should have but even then he still thinks the pin box will hit the tailgate eventually.

Here is the the extended pin box that is on the 5er

And this is what it looks like slid all the way back.

If you buy a 5er. Don't let camping world install the hitch is I guess what I'm saying :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Keith... thank you for the input!

Bob... thank you as well.   Interesting input on the Ford ride vs Dodge.  Tom is also looking at a Dodge.  I understand what you're saying about the rig hitting the window, one of our friends took out his back window and part of the back of the truck (I think...I know it did some sort of serious damage) when he was trying to make a sharp turn   As for CW... I know never to say never, but mercy... if we do make a change, we hope to stay away from them at all cost!!

[BigTom 76]

I went from dual wheels to single wheels and back to dual wheels, the stability of the ride and the increased weight capacity and safety of dual wheels can not compare to SRW trucks. It is a little more problem parking, but after you get use to the width, does not really cause any worries. For a 5th wheel, I would not even consider SRWs, that tongue weight will be more than most imagine, I think the last 5th wheel was 1700 lbs tongue weight, but could have been different.

[bhall 115]

Nacole,

Just to clarify, I have a 2015 Chevy 2500 Crew Cab 4x4.  I haven't driven a Dodge/Ram since July 2014 but in my opinion, they were better then the Fords as well.  I may be mistaken, but I believe there is a huge difference between the rear suspensions of the Ram 2500s and 3500s.  One has Coil Over Shocks while the other just has Leaf Springs.  At the moment I can't recall which series has what, but I would have to guess the 2500s are Coil Over Shocks since that would be the softer ride.

This 2500 has a softer ride then my previous 2011 GMC 1500 Ext. Cab 4x4.  So much softer that my wife can sleep in the 2015 and couldn't in the 2011.  I also believe tire sizes have a lot to do with ride comfort.  My 2011 had 20" tires with very little sidewall.  The 2015 has 17" with a large sidewall.  Of the 4 250s at work, the one with the worst ride is the one with the 20" tires.  The others have 18" tires which ride better then the 20 incher but still not as good as my truck.

[bhall 115]

I went from dual wheels to single wheels and back to dual wheels, the stability of the ride and the increased weight capacity and safety of dual wheels can not compare to SRW trucks. It is a little more problem parking, but after you get use to the width, does not really cause any worries. For a 5th wheel, I would not even consider SRWs, that tongue weight will be more than most imagine, I think the last 5th wheel was 1700 lbs tongue weight, but could have been different.

Tom, since 2012 the big4 have upped their payload capacities greatly.

1700 lb pin weight can easily and safely be done with a lot of gas equipped 250/2500 trucks. My pin weight dry is 1215 lbs. when I had it weighed it was 1450 lbs. The truck goes down less then an inch with the camper attached.

Just my 2500 With payload rating of 2831 lbs. and with just the wife and I and 3 little dogs I am well within the limits. Keep in mind the same year 3500 similarly equipped SRW has a payload rating of 3900-4000 lbs.

however I will agree that 4 tires on the ground is more stable then 2.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LONE-STAR 370]

My 2016 Ram 3500 srw has a pay load over 4000 pounds it's ether 42 or 44. And it's a diesel megacab. My 2012 ford 350 srw only had a payload capacity of 3200 pounds.

I had planned on my Ram being a dually but after driving a dually every day for work I did not want one for my personal truck. if a single rear wheel truck will do the job you will be much happier when not towing. 

[PGHFiend 140]

Consider how much do you want to spend....then work backwards. A 5th wheel does not have to weigh 13k pounds, my Sundance 2800 is only around 9500 loaded.

Also, my f250 fits in the garage where a 350 wouldnt, another reason I use them.  I did see a video of a dodge dealer selling 2017 3500 ram SRWs with 4x4 diesel for 40 grand. I'll see if I can dig it up. 

Here it is:

I love my fords too much though!

[ependydad...Doug 176]

My dually is my daily driver- I can tell you length and height are 100x more an issue than the width. This is coming from someone who has been in all sort of small towns.

That said, for a 13,000 lbs. fifth wheel- it likely doesn't need a dually. But, I personally wouldn't pull it with a 250 as you'll be over one or more ratings.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Thank you all!! I'm on my cell or I'd respond more....thank you!!?

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

Okay, I'm going to add my $.02.  That's about how much my opinion is worth.

Personally I'd stick with a TT, buy a 350 diesel dually, and also buy a golf cart.  The 350 dually will handle the weight of the golf cart in the bed better than a 250.  We had a 350 and loved the ride.  Enough power to take us anywhere we wanted to go.  But that being said, we get comparable gas mileage in our 38,000 pound Class A.   

[dblr....Rennie 224]

I prefer a dually for towing especially if a 5th wheel, to me just better stability, but as most know here I am a firm believer of never having too much truck. As a daily driver at first it seems to be a pain but in time you will get used to it and walking a but farther in a parking lot is a good thing just add it to your exercise routine.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

21 hours ago, CCIntrigue...aka Gwen said:

Okay, I'm going to add my $.02.  That's about how much my opinion is worth.

Personally I'd stick with a TT, buy a 350 diesel dually, and also buy a golf cart.  The 350 dually will handle the weight of the golf cart in the bed better than a 250.  We had a 350 and loved the ride.  Enough power to take us anywhere we wanted to go.  But that being said, we get comparable gas mileage in our 38,000 pound Class A.   

Don't really want a golf cart...but we may stick with our TT.  Not completely sold on the idea of moving up in size.

 

10 hours ago, dblr....Rennie said:

I prefer a dually for towing especially if a 5th wheel, to me just better stability, but as most know here I am a firm believer of never having too much truck. As a daily driver at first it seems to be a pain but in time you will get used to it and walking a but farther in a parking lot is a good thing just add it to your exercise routine.

I suggested the semi...Tom just laughed ?

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

11 hours ago, dblr....Rennie said:

as most know here I am a firm believer of never having too much truck. 

I agree!

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

50 minutes ago, twiceblessed....nacole said:

Don't really want a golf cart...but we may stick with our TT.  Not completely sold on the idea of moving up in size.

But you have to buy a cart for the dog!  

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

3 hours ago, CCIntrigue...aka Gwen said:

But you have to buy a cart for the dog!  

Haha...yes, he was sure spoiled by you two ?❤️

[dblr....Rennie 224]

I was shocked to find out that the semi ended up cheaper then a brand new pick up, and ours even came with the Smart car so it became a no brainer. The semi route is not for everyone but it really worked out well for us, heck even upgraded to a new 42' 5th wheel in the full timer range.

[LONE-STAR 370]

16 hours ago, dblr....Rennie said:

I was shocked to find out that the semi ended up cheaper then a brand new pick up, and ours even came with the Smart car so it became a no brainer. The semi route is not for everyone but it really worked out well for us, heck even upgraded to a new 42' 5th wheel in the full timer range.

But was the semi brand new? Apples to apples it's only fair.

[dblr....Rennie 224]

Good point and no, but in comparing we got a truck more then capable of towing and stopping whatever we tow. Would I have liked to buy a new truck, yes but I couldn't pass up the deal we received. Yes our truck is older with LOTS more miles on it but it is made to go a lot of miles under heavy loads, as said it is not for everyone. Getting back to choice I still recommend a dually, especially if a 5th wheel might be in the future.

[bdm 47]

I don't think a 2011 with 114,000 miles is worth trading in on something newer.  I have a 2012 Ram 2500 diesel and it has 150,000 miles and other than some dings, dents its perfect.  Keep up with the maintenance and save yourself $20,000

 

If you must get a newer or new truck.  I'd try to find a gas 1 ton that was in a 2 or 3 year lease and buy it.   The used diesel truck market right now is crazy over priced.  I've considered selling my truck and getting a gas truck just to get away from the maintenance of a diesel.  With modern gas trucks you get just as much pulling power, at far less of monthly maintenance costs.  Diesel truck oil change is $150 gas truck is half that.  Diesel truck fuel filter replaced every 10k miles $60 gas gets replaced once every 100k $25

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

20 hours ago, bdm said:

I don't think a 2011 with 114,000 miles is worth trading in on something newer.  I have a 2012 Ram 2500 diesel and it has 150,000 miles and other than some dings, dents its perfect.  Keep up with the maintenance and save yourself $20,000

 

If you must get a newer or new truck.  I'd try to find a gas 1 ton that was in a 2 or 3 year lease and buy it.   The used diesel truck market right now is crazy over priced.  I've considered selling my truck and getting a gas truck just to get away from the maintenance of a diesel.  With modern gas trucks you get just as much pulling power, at far less of monthly maintenance costs.  Diesel truck oil change is $150 gas truck is half that.  Diesel truck fuel filter replaced every 10k miles $60 gas gets replaced once every 100k $25

Thanks for the input.  I entered the wrong mileage above... it's actually around 154k,   After having a diesel to pull, I'm not sure that we'd ever consider a gas truck.  The power of the diesel is just too nice.   Yes, the maintenance is more no question.  However, the ability to pull and not feel it is priceless; especially with as many trips as we run.  Now... we haven't tried towing with a 1 ton gas truck, so maybe it's a fair comparison however...not sure how we can even try to compare without actually buying the truck (don't imagine a dealership is going to let us hook up our rig and tow it a few hours into the mountains, but who know..maybe I'm wrong on that?). 

[caveat lector 181]

I agree that Diesel is tops. sure there are some increased maintenance costs.  But amortizing the total cost of ownership out over the extended average useful life of a diesel mitigates most of that impact. They will have to pry my Diesel from my cold dead hands.