The nerve of these people, this is so friggin wrong!

[arthuruscg 34]

hehehe, you could ask to see their magic band before you handed out candy.

[Travisma 1,317]

4 minutes ago, arthuruscg said:

hehehe, you could ask to see their magic band before you handed out candy.

Couple of things wrong with that.

 

One, you will look like a scrooge and penalize the kids for their parents being jackwagons.  Disney needs to turn the families away before they get on property.

Two, unless you have a MB scanner, it could be an outsider with an old band, or someone from the parks or another resort.

That's why if Disney isn't going to use scanners at the pool or for something like ToT, they need to start giving out ID bracelets at checkin to differentiate campers from outsiders.

Someone on the original FB page where this was posted said they would go in and purchase the bands themselves and hand them out to campers in the loop they are in and two adjacent ones.

And now, someone shared a post that another group had put up telling everyone how Disney had a "free" Easter Egg Hunt at the GF and to make sure you packed a picnic lunch to enjoy on their beautiful grounds after the hunt.

[momof3kids-Yvonne 596]

Couple of things wrong with that.

 

One, you will look like a scrooge and penalize the kids for their parents being jackwagons.  Disney needs to turn the families away before they get on property.

Two, unless you have a MB scanner, it could be an outsider with an old band, or someone from the parks or another resort.

That's why if Disney isn't going to use scanners at the pool or for something like ToT, they need to start giving out ID bracelets at checkin to differentiate campers from outsiders.

Someone on the original FB page where this was posted said they would go in and purchase the bands themselves and hand them out to campers in the loop they are in and two adjacent ones.

And now, someone shared a post that another group had put up telling everyone how Disney had a "free" Easter Egg Hunt at the GF and to make sure you packed a picnic lunch to enjoy on their beautiful grounds after the hunt.

Actually it was the same person that is organizing the group trip to the Fort for Trick or Treating that also organized the trip to the GF for the Egg Hunt.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[swimmarz 72]

1 hour ago, arthuruscg said:

hehehe, you could ask to see their magic band before you handed out candy.

I posted that i would be willing to buy those tyvec wristbands and hand them out 10 per site, no wrist band no candy... I may look like a scrooge, but after you go to 2 or 3 sites to get candy and get nothing you'll get the idea and leave as you don't belong there... and if you figure it out quick enough, you'll have time to head home and get your ToT on

 

[Travisma 1,317]

21 minutes ago, swimmarz said:

I posted that i would be willing to buy those tyvec wristbands and hand them out 10 per site, no wrist band no candy... I may look like a scrooge, but after you go to 2 or 3 sites to get candy and get nothing you'll get the idea and leave as you don't belong there... and if you figure it out quick enough, you'll have time to head home and get your ToT on

 

OK. 

Like I said previously, and TCD has said numerous times, if Disney wanted to make the Fort amenities more secure they would do it, and it would be fairly simple.

 

Now if they wanted to keep the Fort as a whole more secure, that would be a little harder.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

I mentioned the Orlando Sentinel article from 5 years ago that told everyone they could trick or treat around the Fort after the Backyard BBQ.

There was a Disney Parks Blog article promoting the special Halloween Backyard BBQ that same year:

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/09/spend-halloween-at-fort-wilderness-with-disney-characters/

At least the Blog article didn't tell everyone to feel free to trick-or-treat afterward.

Halloween fell on a Monday night that year.

In 2012 it was a Wednesday.  I haven't found any mention of a Halloween Backyard BBQ for that year.  In 2013, Halloween was a Thursday night.  Tuesday and Thursdays through Saturdays are the normal Backyard BBQ nights, and I assume they had the regular Backyard BBQ on Thursday night in 2013, Friday night in 2014 and Saturday night in 2015. 

And here we are in 2016, and Halloween is back on a Monday night.

Shouldn't be a problem, since the Backyard BBQ is on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.  Like clockwork from now until the end of the year.

But not the week of October 31.

Nope.

On October 31, there are two seatings for the Backyard BBQ.  One at 4. The other at 6:30.  That 4:00 seating is perfect for folks who'd like to hang around the campground for some free high quality trick-or-treating!

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

13 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

I mentioned the Orlando Sentinel article from 5 years ago that told everyone they could trick or treat around the Fort after the Backyard BBQ.

There was a Disney Parks Blog article promoting the special Halloween Backyard BBQ that same year:

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/09/spend-halloween-at-fort-wilderness-with-disney-characters/

At least the Blog article didn't tell everyone to feel free to trick-or-treat afterward.

Halloween fell on a Monday night that year.

In 2012 it was a Wednesday.  I haven't found any mention of a Halloween Backyard BBQ for that year.  In 2013, Halloween was a Thursday night.  Tuesday and Thursdays through Saturdays are the normal Backyard BBQ nights, and I assume they had the regular Backyard BBQ on Thursday night in 2013, Friday night in 2014 and Saturday night in 2015. 

And here we are in 2016, and Halloween is back on a Monday night.

Shouldn't be a problem, since the Backyard BBQ is on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.  Like clockwork from now until the end of the year.

But not the week of October 31.

Nope.

On October 31, there are two seatings for the Backyard BBQ.  One at 4. The other at 6:30.  That 4:00 seating is perfect for folks who'd like to hang around the campground for some free high quality trick-or-treating!

TCD

Maybe they'll ship over some MNSSHP bags so the BBQ goers have it easier to ToT?

[Travisma 1,317]

So two people from that other FB site posted that they got phone calls from a Lena or Lana from guest communications.  She told the people that they have been getting numerous emails, and that they were forwarding all to Fort management.  She told them there is a new fort manger that is taking these email seriously and guest services has asked him for solutions to these complaints.

 

So we shall see what happens, but like TCD said, they were doing something 5 years ago, and nothing happened.

[swimmarz 72]

7 hours ago, Travisma said:

So two people from that other FB site posted that they got phone calls from a Lena or Lana from guest communications.  She told the people that they have been getting numerous emails, and that they were forwarding all to Fort management.  She told them there is a new fort manger that is taking these email seriously and guest services has asked him for solutions to these complaints.

 

So we shall see what happens, but like TCD said, they were doing something 5 years ago, and nothing happened.

it was me....
she wanted to know the site/ sites that things were posted on so i took numerous screen shots and sent them to her after our conversation, I also talked to her about the pool being used by non resort guests and how they really should put a MB scanner on it like the wilderness lodge now has and restrict it to resort guests.

to give more details, she said I was 1 of many many emails pertaining to this, and the new manager is being made aware of each one.
I don't know who the new guy is, but some of you posted here that he was good, we shall see...

during our conversation she did say to me that the events listed for  holiday weekend  in the activity schedule are for the"exclusively for  resort guest only"

She said that Disney does not publicly share the events schedule as to not draw attention to it but noted that various bloggers and websites do and that is what is creating the problem, I advised her that wasnt the issue, its resort security.... they could publish all they want, but if they are not providing a secure environment that's what causes the problem.  She saw my point when i mentioned the "gone mad" party at the GF, how they ran out of food/ drinks due to the amount of people that showed up for it this past Wednesday.  She was already aware of that(had a few complaints) and asked how i had known of it as i wasnt a resort guest, we got back to the blogs and such how people are essentially advertising come for the "free event"  here's how to "bypass security"  

she then asked how could Disney make it better, we talked about the NSSHP and VMCP how they use wristbands for the event and have staff ushering people out, they already have wristbands they use and just pick a different color for each holiday weekend, no band no access its that simple and it can be done at any point of entry just have to enforce it  each site can hold 10 people, so at check in you get 10 bands

Its really not right/ fair for non resort guest to show up for events/ facility use when we are paying to be there 
After 20 min or so we had exhausted all of my concerns and she sent me the email below

they have roughly 80 days to do something about it
 

 

Dear Rich,

 

Thank you for speaking with me yesterday and following up with this additional information.

 

We appreciate you taking the time to share this feedback. Please be assured that it has been forwarded to the appropriate leadership.If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to reach out to me.

 

I hope your next visit will be filled with many memories and Magical moments.

 

Best Regards,

 

Lene Jakobsen

Guest Experience Services

Walt Disney World Resort

(407) 828-1220

[Travisma 1,317]

I'm glad you mentioned the part about resort security and the freeloader pool, and not just Trick or Treat.

 

[swimmarz 72]

I don't know if i speak for many people when i say these things, but security is a factor we as society need to deal with more so than we did in the past.
Just this week ( or last) a man tried to bring a gun into MK, Lene and I talked about that and how the park security has stepped up and the same needs to be done at the resorts.

think about most   some of our issues at Ft Wilderness, kids driving golf carts, non guest using pool, non guest showing up for events like ToT and campfire/movie... all of this can be fixed quickly and easily by making the place more secure.

you already have personnel on the boats, while waiting to board scan bands/ check for the resort wristband, question those that don't have one, actually verify they have a reservation( think separate lines 1 for resort guest, 1 for dining guest).... the technology does exist, they just need to use it/ implement it at the fort

you already have security guards at most resort entrances, again actually verifying what the person is doing would fix the issue, not just taking their word for it...( people Lie)

Bus drivers, look for the resort bands if you going to the resorts, stop and question those that don't have them re-direct to proper bus

Monorail personnel look for wrist bands at the hotel stops,  no wrist band means you get stopped and have dining reservations verified, otherwise you don't get off the platform and get on the next train back to TTC... its not hard to implement all the pieces are there... 

yes a few people could still get past, and that's going to happen no matter what, but if the show they are looking for proof you belong there, and you cant provide it, then you get escorted off the resort or denied entry to it

they need to run these like the all inclusive resorts i have been to

Its not a bad thing to deny someone who has no reservation be it food or hotel/ resort access

[Cortezcapt (Derek) 156]

I don't know if i speak for many people when i say these things, but security is a factor we as society need to deal with more so than we did in the past.

Just this week ( or last) a man tried to bring a gun into MK, Lene and I talked about that and how the park security has stepped up and the same needs to be done at the resorts.

think about most   some of our issues at Ft Wilderness, kids driving golf carts, non guest using pool, non guest showing up for events like ToT and campfire/movie... all of this can be fixed quickly and easily by making the place more secure.

you already have personnel on the boats, while waiting to board scan bands/ check for the resort wristband, question those that don't have one, actually verify they have a reservation( think separate lines 1 for resort guest, 1 for dining guest).... the technology does exist, they just need to use it/ implement it at the fort

you already have security guards at most resort entrances, again actually verifying what the person is doing would fix the issue, not just taking their word for it...( people Lie)

Bus drivers, look for the resort bands if you going to the resorts, stop and question those that don't have them re-direct to proper bus

Monorail personnel look for wrist bands at the hotel stops,  no wrist band means you get stopped and have dining reservations verified, otherwise you don't get off the platform and get on the next train back to TTC... its not hard to implement all the pieces are there... 

yes a few people could still get past, and that's going to happen no matter what, but if the show they are looking for proof you belong there, and you cant provide it, then you get escorted off the resort or denied entry to it

they need to run these like the all inclusive resorts i have been to

Its not a bad thing to deny someone who has no reservation be it food or hotel/ resort access

I don't disagree that there needs to be something done to curb the freeloaders that use the pool and abuse events such as tot and such. However as an annual pass holder there are times I may be on property that I'm not staying at a Disney resort and want to pop into a resort for lunch, dinner or even to just wonder around. That's where Disney has a problem, how do they verify that I don't just want to go to let's say Port Orleans to have a drink or a CS meal, or to the Poly for a Dole whip, or even into the Fort to buy something from one of the shops? They could beef up security for special events and holiday weekends only but then you have the problem of people at other resorts or that may actually be at a park not being able to go to a resort for a meal or just to look around without making a dining reservation. It would curb freeloaders but it would also slow down transportation and take a lot of the ease and magic out of getting around on property.

Wristbands handed out to guests at check-in would be the only thing I could see working for something like Halloween, and if word got out that they were doing that it might curb the freeloaders or at large groups. But how many campers would actually check for bands, I wouldn't turn a child away or deny them candy if they didn't have a band on, it not their fault.

I am all for a MB scanner at the pool!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

2 hours ago, swimmarz said:

it was me....
she wanted to know the site/ sites that things were posted on so i took numerous screen shots and sent them to her after our conversation, I also talked to her about the pool being used by non resort guests and how they really should put a MB scanner on it like the wilderness lodge now has and restrict it to resort guests.

to give more details, she said I was 1 of many many emails pertaining to this, and the new manager is being made aware of each one.
I don't know who the new guy is, but some of you posted here that he was good, we shall see...

during our conversation she did say to me that the events listed for  holiday weekend  in the activity schedule are for the"exclusively for  resort guest only"

She said that Disney does not publicly share the events schedule as to not draw attention to it but noted that various bloggers and websites do and that is what is creating the problem, I advised her that wasnt the issue, its resort security.... they could publish all they want, but if they are not providing a secure environment that's what causes the problem.  She saw my point when i mentioned the "gone mad" party at the GF, how they ran out of food/ drinks due to the amount of people that showed up for it this past Wednesday.  She was already aware of that(had a few complaints) and asked how i had known of it as i wasnt a resort guest, we got back to the blogs and such how people are essentially advertising come for the "free event"  here's how to "bypass security"  

she then asked how could Disney make it better, we talked about the NSSHP and VMCP how they use wristbands for the event and have staff ushering people out, they already have wristbands they use and just pick a different color for each holiday weekend, no band no access its that simple and it can be done at any point of entry just have to enforce it  each site can hold 10 people, so at check in you get 10 bands

Its really not right/ fair for non resort guest to show up for events/ facility use when we are paying to be there 
After 20 min or so we had exhausted all of my concerns and she sent me the email below

they have roughly 80 days to do something about it
 

 

Dear Rich,

 

 

Thank you for speaking with me yesterday and following up with this additional information.

 

 

We appreciate you taking the time to share this feedback. Please be assured that it has been forwarded to the appropriate leadership.If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to reach out to me.

 

 

I hope your next visit will be filled with many memories and Magical moments.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

 

Lene Jakobsen

 

Guest Experience Services

 

Walt Disney World Resort

 

(407) 828-1220

 

I'll be amazed if anything happens.

As I said earlier, talk is cheap.

October 31 is one day.  The Fort is already sold out, and it will be sold out again next year, even if the place is once again inundated with freeloaders taking your candy.  Maybe you'll be so offended that you won't come back.  But, there are plenty of folks who will.

On the subject of freeloaders, the major point that you are missing is that the majority of them are the families and friends of Fort Wilderness castmembers who have the blessing of management to be there.  So, what's going to happen when Lene asks the Fort management to look into this issue?

Nothing.  That's what.  This is not some new problem that hasn't been discussed many times before.

TCD

[swimmarz 72]

5+ years ago it wasnt a problem, so what changed?
people started blogging more, people started to share information

now I have never been there at Halloween, so I have no clue what to expect other than what i have read/ seen
so we will try it this year, see what happens, you may be right, i may avoid all holiday weekends at the fort after this trip

you cant fault me for trying to make things better, but i can "vote" with my wallet but id rather not

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

16 minutes ago, swimmarz said:

5+ years ago it wasnt a problem, so what changed?
people started blogging more, people started to share information

now I have never been there at Halloween, so I have no clue what to expect other than what i have read/ seen
so we will try it this year, see what happens, you may be right, i may avoid all holiday weekends at the fort after this trip

you cant fault me for trying to make things better, but i can "vote" with my wallet but id rather not

I'm not faulting you at all.  Who knows, maybe the new manager will surprise everyone and do something about it.

The invasion of the Fort by locals on Halloween has been a problem for much more than 5+ years.  My first Halloween night there was in 2008, and I was shocked by the number of people who came by our site on the 800 loop.  I'm talking the entire loop road full of people.  There is no possible way that they were all staying at the Fort.  I was there again in 2009, 2010 and 2011. 2009 was the year that a young girl was seriously injured in a golf cart accident on Halloween night by some drunk jackwagons horsing around on the 700 loop.  You would think some changes would be made then, but, despite repeated assurances that the management heard the complaints and would do something about it- nothing has been done.

I'm glad that you're going this year, and I am hoping that since Halloween night falls on a Monday that the crowds won't be as bad.  As I said earlier, it really isn't worth getting worked up over.  Buy the amount of candy you are comfortable distributing, and when it's gone, it's gone.  The whole mess only lasts a couple of hours, and the Fort will return to normal after all the freeloaders leave with their overflowing buckets of candy.

We will probably have this same discussion next year.  And the same thing will happen.

TCD

[rjpete 8]

isn't Halloween a religious holiday? Just put up a sign saying you don't participate in this holiday, for religious reasons.

[Travisma 1,317]

We have gone the last two years and have done the pumpkin carving contest and trick or treating and not given out candy because we were taking our two granddaughters around.

We are probably turning back our reservations this year because our older granddaughter won't be able to miss 3 days of school.

[disneylitch......Debbie 61]

I think social media is definitely what has made a difference in the reaction to these issues.  Not too many years ago, it was basically word of mouth.  Now people are putting everything on facebook, so we are definitely aware of their plans.  Hopefully this will give management an idea of the magnitude of the problem.  Only time will tell.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

22 hours ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

I'm not faulting you at all.  Who knows, maybe the new manager will surprise everyone and do something about it.

....  You would think some changes would be made then, but, despite repeated assurances that the management heard the complaints and would do something about it- nothing has been done.

We will probably have this same discussion next year.  And the same thing will happen.

TCD

 

How true.  

The Fort is such a great place in the off season, or mid-week, or after a holiday exodus. Even though there are still lots of campers there it's not a problem because it's comfortably below what the Fort was designed for.  It's only when large numbers come in and "take over" that the Fort starts to not be so great.

All Disney sees is that they have lots of money coming in, and as TCD said above, they know there are plenty to take the place of any of us who don't come back.

So they fill the Fort to capacity and beyond, or as my grandfather used to say: "Ten pounds of you-know-what in a five pound bag"....  and if you are there to enjoy a nice vacation, too bad!  Disney has left you at the mercy of the party people who care nothing about you and your family.

As far as expecting Disney to do something that will actually make a difference? A guest quote in The Unofficial Guide said it best awhile back:  "Disney is a pleasure to deal with when things are going well, but when things don't go well it's like trying to talk to a brick wall".

 

(And BTW, much respect to Rich and the others who take the time and effort to try and convince Disney to do something concrete about this. I really do hope you are successful, but based on the record so far, Walt's original idea of an affordable peaceful place for families is just a distant memory that has been replaced by a very different set of priorities...)

 

 

 

[southernview -- Ray 25]

On 8/12/2016 at 7:47 AM, Cortezcapt (Derek) said:

I don't disagree that there needs to be something done to curb the freeloaders that use the pool and abuse events such as tot and such. However as an annual pass holder there are times I may be on property that I'm not staying at a Disney resort and want to pop into a resort for lunch, dinner or even to just wonder around. That's where Disney has a problem, how do they verify that I don't just want to go to let's say Port Orleans to have a drink or a CS meal, or to the Poly for a Dole whip, or even into the Fort to buy something from one of the shops? They could beef up security for special events and holiday weekends only but then you have the problem of people at other resorts or that may actually be at a park not being able to go to a resort for a meal or just to look around without making a dining reservation. It would curb freeloaders but it would also slow down transportation and take a lot of the ease and magic out of getting around on property.

Wristbands handed out to guests at check-in would be the only thing I could see working for something like Halloween, and if word got out that they were doing that it might curb the freeloaders or at large groups. But how many campers would actually check for bands, I wouldn't turn a child away or deny them candy if they didn't have a band on, it not their fault.

I am all for a MB scanner at the pool!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

I am inclined to agree with Derek's comments on this problem as I have experienced the same thing.  I suppose that the innocent will have to abide by the regulations made to control the guilty, but it just seems that for me at least,  it will take something else out of the magic that was the original Disney.

[AuburnJen 777]

On 8/4/2016 at 9:35 AM, Tri-Circle-D said:

Of course there are simple ways to solve this problem.

So, why has the management not solved it?

Because it's not a problem for them. 

Freeloaders cost them nothing.

They only care about the bottom line.

That has been made abundantly clear.

If campers ever stopped coming for Halloween, they would take notice.

But, despite all of the bellyaching, and ever increasing campsite rates, there won't be an open campsite in the Fort.  There will be plenty of decorated campsites, and lots of decorated carts in the golf cart parade.

So nothing changes.

That Mommy Blogger ought to tell folks to bring extra buckets for the premium candy the suckers who pay for this will be passing out again this year.

What a deal!

TCD

If campers stop coming to the Fort, they would turn it into a regular resort like everything else.  TCD is on point.  This is not Disney's circus or set of monkies that they care about.  As long as the band of monkies behave, they don't care.

[AuburnJen 777]

On 8/12/2016 at 9:56 PM, disneylitch......Debbie said:

I think social media is definitely what has made a difference in the reaction to these issues.  Not too many years ago, it was basically word of mouth.  Now people are putting everything on facebook, so we are definitely aware of their plans.  Hopefully this will give management an idea of the magnitude of the problem.  Only time will tell.

Facebook is not the only place management visits.  You can count on that one.

[Littleolwoman.aka.Kristie 119]

I would love to know the amount of people at the Fort on Halloween that are actual Disney guests compared to those who are "freeloaders". My guess is the freeloaders population is very small. There is no way to monitor any of these guest. Think of all the ways into the Fort, boat, bus, walking from the Lodge, etc, to monitor all of this for one night is too much. What I see happening is the Fort shutting the entire thing down, that would be the easiest solution. Sometimes complaints, good or bad, do not have the results we desire. 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

30 minutes ago, Littleolwoman.aka.Kristie said:

.My guess is the freeloaders population is very small. 

Having witnessed the hoards of people swarming the loops myself over the course of several years, my guess is the opposite of yours.  The freeloader population on Halloween night is huge. You have to see it to believe it.  There is no possible way that many people are actual registered guests at the Fort.

And, there's no possible way that Fort management doesn't know that.

TCD

[Littleolwoman.aka.Kristie 119]

I agree that those people are not strictly registered Fort guests but they might be, and probably are, Disney guests, meaning from other hotels on property. The freeloaders I am talking about are those who are not staying on park property.