River Country Again

[LONE-STAR 370]

1 hour ago, Starbuc71 said:

I think by the time they even think of building a DVC at the fort , we will be done with camping.  We truly only go to the fort twice a year now for the kids. There was a time where I could make last minute reservations for a 3 day weekend at a good price , but those days are gone and the prices are just now insane. Once the DVC is built, I'm sure the prices will continue to rise. Such a shame the best campground around is turning into something that people just can't afford any longer.  

It's a Disney resort themed to camping. You have to pay a premium for Disney theming.

[Starbuc71 162]

12 hours ago, LONE-STAR said:

It's a Disney resort themed to camping. You have to pay a premium for Disney theming.

You have to agree that premium pricing for Disney theming has gotten out of control?  If they are going to raise the prices for campers, add some amenities. Towels at the pool.  Better reservation system so you don't have to book a year out, MB readers at the pool gate.  Raise the site price= reduced fee in cart rental. Better quick serve food options (don't say the food camper)

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

39 minutes ago, Starbuc71 said:

You have to agree that premium pricing for Disney theming has gotten out of control?  If they are going to raise the prices for campers, add some amenities. Towels at the pool.  Better reservation system so you don't have to book a year out, MB readers at the pool gate.  Raise the site price= reduced fee in cart rental. Better quick serve food options (don't say the food camper)

Couldn't agree more. Walt's idea of an affordable place to park the station wagon, pitch a tent, and take the family to the Parks has been slowly disappearing. And it seems like the trend is accelerating....  

I've said before that given the choice I would much rather stay at Fort Wilderness circa 1975-85 or so than the Fort Wilderness of today. 

I would gladly give up WIFI and one hundred cable channels for a return to the days when you could get a site whenever you wanted, you could take the kids to the pool without fear of drowning or having nowhere to sit, you could walk over to River Country whenever you liked, you could use the Nature Walk, the Trams, and even a Steam Train for a couple of years!  And you could actually swim at the beach. 

Was it perfect, no. Was it pricey for a family even then, yes. But dollar for dollar I think the average Fort Wilderness Guest got a lot more for their money back then.....

 

[lightbikes 73]

7 hours ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Couldn't agree more. Walt's idea of an affordable place to park the station wagon, pitch a tent, and take the family to the Parks has been slowly disappearing. And it seems like the trend is accelerating....  

I've said before that given the choice I would much rather stay at Fort Wilderness circa 1975-85 or so than the Fort Wilderness of today. 

I would gladly give up WIFI and one hundred cable channels for a return to the days when you could get a site whenever you wanted, you could take the kids to the pool without fear of drowning or having nowhere to sit, you could walk over to River Country whenever you liked, you could use the Nature Walk, the Trams, and even a Steam Train for a couple of years!  And you could actually swim at the beach. 

Was it perfect, no. Was it pricey for a family even then, yes. But dollar for dollar I think the average Fort Wilderness Guest got a lot more for their money back then.....

 

I couldn't agree more !!!!!!  I guess it's a sign of my age but I really miss the old Fort Wilderness - it was genuine.  Everything that happens now, from the over crowding, to the kids on golf carts, to dogs in tent loops - it's just sad.

 

[LONE-STAR 370]

8 hours ago, Starbuc71 said:

You have to agree that premium pricing for Disney theming has gotten out of control?  If they are going to raise the prices for campers, add some amenities. Towels at the pool.  Better reservation system so you don't have to book a year out, MB readers at the pool gate.  Raise the site price= reduced fee in cart rental. Better quick serve food options (don't say the food camper)

I do agree that it's goten overpriced I was being sarcastic. I was talking to one of the managers last week at the Fort and he said he never thought he would see the day that people were paying $175 a night to camp. He says he hopes he is retired before it hits 200 he's been there 30 years, then he asked me why do we keep coming I told him I don't know that's a good question.  But the place is always packed now because it's generation on top of generation on top of generation on top of Generation all trying to go there. The Parks have gotten just as bad now no matter what time of year I try it's always packed now. The cast members at the front of the fort said they don't even want to be there when Star Wars land opens they said they're dreading the crowds.

I had a summer trip planned I'm cancelling it now just decided it's not worth the money, going to Camp locally. But if I lived in Florida I would still go. But 2200 miles and $700.00 in diesel for one week to see stuff I just did last week. As of now not interested. I do think the food truck was a nice addition though. And to me it does seem they are trying to improve things around the Fort. Not sure that it's all a good thing though like replacing all the wooden benches at the campfire with aluminum benches not crazy about that.

[Travisma 1,317]

50 minutes ago, LONE-STAR said:

I do agree that it's goten overpriced I was being sarcastic. I was talking to one of the managers last week at the Fort and he said he never thought he would see the day that people were paying $175 a night to camp. He says he hopes he is retired before it hits 200 he's been there 30 years, then he asked me why do we keep coming I told him I don't know that's a good question.  But the place is always packed now because it's generation on top of generation on top of generation on top of Generation all trying to go there. The Parks have gotten just as bad now no matter what time of year I try it's always packed now. The cast members at the front of the fort said they don't even want to be there when Star Wars land opens they said they're dreading the crowds.

I had a summer trip planned I'm cancelling it now just decided it's not worth the money, going to Camp locally. But if I lived in Florida I would still go. But 2200 miles and $700.00 in diesel for one week to see stuff I just did last week. As of now not interested. I do think the food truck was a nice addition though. And to me it does seem they are trying to improve things around the Fort. Not sure that it's all a good thing though like replacing all the wooden benches at the campfire with aluminum benches not crazy about that.

Do we like the Fort?  Yup.

Is it the best campground around?  Yup

Has it gotten out of control with crowds and pricing?  Yup

I hate the fact that we can rent a suite with free breakfast just barely off property for less than a partial campsite, and a lot less hassle setting up camp for one or two nights.  Especially with the maybe 3 PM check-in time.

Will we be back?  Probably, but it's becoming harder to get a site when we want want one.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

12 hours ago, LONE-STAR said:

 Not sure that it's all a good thing though like replacing all the wooden benches at the campfire with aluminum benches not crazy about that.

WHAT???!!!

This is the first I've heard of that.  The cheaper wooden benches that are there now have only been in place for a couple of years.

Now they're installing aluminum benches?  How does that fit in with the theming of the campfire area?

11 hours ago, Travisma said:

Will we be back?  Probably, but it's becoming harder to get a site when we want want one.

And that's the problem.  Despite all of the things that those of us who know better don't like, and the outrageous pricing, the Fort stays full.  So, we can forget anything changing for the better.  I still say it will come back to bite them, but by that time, they'll bring in the bulldozers, level the place, and put up the biggest DVC resort we've ever seen.

TCD

[parrothead7368 aka Norm 101]

1 hour ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

Now they're installing aluminum benches?  How does that fit in with the theming of the campfire area?

TCD

They'll paint them brown.....

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

7 minutes ago, parrothead7368 aka Norm said:

They'll paint them brown.....

LOL.

I hope you're right.  I haven't seen Brown Paint Guy around lately.  I hope he has it in him.

TCD

[Starbuc71 162]

I agree with all of this.  We are here this week in our favorite site but 7 days for $1200 is pretty steep.  Things will never be the way they used to be. I can put up with the crowds, the price increases (to a point) and the other little things that have changed.  But booking a site over s year out is nuts.  They don't care about that as long as someone is renting it

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

Prices will go up until demand begins to go down. It's simple economics.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

8 minutes ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

Prices will go up until demand begins to go down. It's simple economics.

Of course,  That's all that matters to Disney anymore.

What makes this attitude especially unfortunate for fans of Fort Wilderness is that the management doesn't care where the money is coming from, as long as it's coming in.  So, we see more and more unruly groups pushing the site occupancy limits and campsite equipment rules.  When you can pack 10 or more people on a campsite, the high price isn't quite as bad per person as it is for a retired couple or family of four.  Disney doesn't care.  If a couple or regular family won't pay $175 a night for a campsite, they have plenty of buses full of folks from "The 305" who are willing to take the site.

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

17 minutes ago, GaDawgFan.....Kelly said:

Prices will go up until demand begins to go down. It's simple economics.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Disney Marketers have been so successful, they have ended up creating a monster.

Disney fanatics are like the mythical Hydra.  For every one that decides to stop going to the parks or resorts for whatever reason,, two (or more) will gladly take their place.

At this point with the 1%ers and the generations that have grown up Disney, money is no object.  They will finance the vacation for 10 years just to say they did it.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

16 hours ago, LONE-STAR said:

..... I was talking to one of the managers last week at the Fort and he said he never thought he would see the day that people were paying $175 a night to camp. He says he hopes he is retired before it hits 200 he's been there 30 years, then he asked me why do we keep coming I told him I don't know that's a good question.  .......

Even a Fort Manager is at a loss to explain why people keep paying the higher price.....

I think TCD and Travisma have hit on it above, there are Three basic demographics that come to the Fort:

1. The relatively well-off older or retired couple in the big RV's

2. The Groups or extended families who can pack 10 (or more) people on each site 

3. The average Family who want to camp and/or want to save some money by driving to Disney and pitching a tent, Pop-Up or camper.

Number One doesn't mind the higher prices too much as long as they can get a site (Not saying they are Rich and don't care about the price, just that many don't have a house and/or a mortgage anymore and don't have to choose between vacation or paying bills....)

Number Two doesn't mind the higher prices too much either because they can spread the cost over 10 (or more..) people and it's the only place around they can cram that many people in (busloads!) for the same "low" cost for them.

Number Three is the category that gets hit the most with every price increase and also the ones who suffer the most when the buses start unloading next to their site, the Pool is swamped with freeloaders and their kids have to worry about getting run over by out of control golf-carts....

The Fort is increasingly targeting it's prices, services, and policies to Groups One and Two while Three is ignored.

I'd love to talk to that 30 year Manager and get his real take on the modern-day Fort and what he would do differently if he could....

 

[Starbuc71 162]

1 hour ago, Avatab.... Steve said:

Even a Fort Manager is at a loss to explain why people keep paying the higher price.....

I think TCD and Travisma have hit on it above, there are Three basic demographics that come to the Fort:

1. The relatively well-off older or retired couple in the big RV's

2. The Groups or extended families who can pack 10 (or more) people on each site 

3. The average Family who want to camp and/or want to save some money by driving to Disney and pitching a tent, Pop-Up or camper.

Number One doesn't mind the higher prices too much as long as they can get a site (Not saying they are Rich and don't care about the price, just that many don't have a house and/or a mortgage anymore and don't have to choose between vacation or paying bills....)

Number Two doesn't mind the higher prices too much either because they can spread the cost over 10 (or more..) people and it's the only place around they can cram that many people in (busloads!) for the same "low" cost for them.

Number Three is the category that gets hit the most with every price increase and also the ones who suffer the most when the buses start unloading next to their site, the Pool is swamped with freeloaders and their kids have to worry about getting run over by out of control golf-carts....

The Fort is increasingly targeting it's prices, services, and policies to Groups One and Two while Three is ignored.

I'd love to talk to that 30 year Manager and get his real take on the modern-day Fort and what he would do differently if he could....

 

I couldn't have categorized it any better. Unfortunately I fall into the last group. Going back to the discussion of DVC at the fort, I wish they would do extra premium lake sites or something that DVC would really work out. They could add other  extra amenities such as a private pool other food choices and what not.  I think a lot of campers would look into DVC for that

[Travisma 1,317]

Last week we stopped at a small campground up by Homosassa Springs FL.

It was called the Chassahowitzka River Campground.  It was old, simple, nothing to brag about.  They only allowed tents in the tenting area, and all the  RV sites were full sites.  With tax the full sites were about $45 a night.  There was a boat launch area that cost $5 to park ( $7 with a trailer) even if you were camping.  It was definitely more real type camping than the Fort.  I would've been more impressed if it was $25 a night.  It has 4 stars for a 122 reviews.  And the place was full.  They said to book at least 3 to 4 weeks in advance, especially on weekends.

So Disney knows what they have, and they know that even at $200 a night for a premium site they will get someone to rent a space.

[Starbuc71 162]

6 minutes ago, Travisma said:

Last week we stopped at a small campground up by Homosassa Springs FL.

It was called the Chassahowitzka River Campground.  It was old, simple, nothing to brag about.  They only allowed tents in the tenting area, and all the  RV sites were full sites.  With tax the full sites were about $45 a night.  There was a boat launch area that cost $5 to park ( $7 with a trailer) even if you were camping.  It was definitely more real type camping than the Fort.  I would've been more impressed if it was $25 a night.  It has 4 stars for a 122 reviews.  And the place was full.  They said to book at least 3 to 4 weeks in advance, especially on weekends.

So Disney knows what they have, and they know that even at $200 a night for a premium site they will get someone to rent a space.

You're absolutely right

[h2odivers...Ray 952]

49 minutes ago, Travisma said:

Last week we stopped at a small campground up by Homosassa Springs FL.

It was called the Chassahowitzka River Campground.  It was old, simple, nothing to brag about.  They only allowed tents in the tenting area, and all the  RV sites were full sites.  With tax the full sites were about $45 a night.  There was a boat launch area that cost $5 to park ( $7 with a trailer) even if you were camping.  It was definitely more real type camping than the Fort.  I would've been more impressed if it was $25 a night.  It has 4 stars for a 122 reviews.  And the place was full.  They said to book at least 3 to 4 weeks in advance, especially on weekends.

So Disney knows what they have, and they know that even at $200 a night for a premium site they will get someone to rent a space.

What does a nice camp ground, close to Disney, cost?  

[LONE-STAR 370]

13 hours ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

WHAT???!!!

This is the first I've heard of that.  The cheaper wooden benches that are there now have only been in place for a couple of years.

Now they're installing aluminum benches?  How does that fit in with the theming of the campfire area?

 

When we checked in on 3/10 they had replaced half of them. When we came back on 3/15 they had all been replaced.

It looks horrible from a theming point of view compared to the old log  benches.  But if you never saw what was there before you would just set down open a beer and drag out the smore fixins.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

10 hours ago, LONE-STAR said:

When we checked in on 3/10 they had replaced half of them. When we came back on 3/15 they had all been replaced.

It looks horrible from a theming point of view compared to the old log  benches.  But if you never saw what was there before you would just set down open a beer and drag out the smore fixins.

I'll have to check those out.

You're right- those who don't know what was there before won't even care.  That attitude has worked well for the Fort management for many other things that have been removed (totem poles, wagons, cannons, petting zoo, playground swings, the kiddie pool, the stuffed bear in Crockett's Tavern, the Wilderness Swamp Trail,  24 hour pool hours, River Country, Discovery Island, etc.), so I'm sure that they are safe with this decision.

TCD

[WannaBeImagineer 98]

7 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

You're right- those who don't know what was there before won't even care.  That attitude has worked well for the Fort management for many other things that have been removed (totem poles, wagons, cannons, petting zoo, playground swings, the kiddie pool, the stuffed bear in Crockett's Tavern, the Wilderness Swamp Trail,  24 hour pool hours, River Country, Discovery Island, etc.), so I'm sure that they are safe with this decision.

TCD

Wait a minute!  

When did the bear get taken out?!?

WTFort How did I miss that? That SMB!

I also think that's dumb about the benches, why do they keep replacing benches that are perfectly fine?  The logs were still good, and the new woods were couldn't have been bad they are practically new, why spend money on new ones?

WBI

[Travisma 1,317]

10 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

I'll have to check those out.

You're right- those who don't know what was there before won't even care.  That attitude has worked well for the Fort management for many other things that have been removed (totem poles, wagons, cannons, petting zoo, playground swings, the kiddie pool, the stuffed bear in Crockett's Tavern, the Wilderness Swamp Trail,  24 hour pool hours, River Country, Discovery Island, etc.), so I'm sure that they are safe with this decision.

TCD

Soon it'll be a clean sanitized futuristic version of a campground.

Next will be replacing all of the grass with astroturf, and putting a sealant over exposed dirt.

The new campers only want a camping experience without all of the muss and fuss.

Disney needs to take a look at that place in Texas (I think) that has a warehouse set up as a campground with about 10 or 12 PUPs and small TTs set up inside. .Everthing is clean and artificial

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

1 hour ago, WannaBeImagineer said:

Wait a minute!  

When did the bear get taken out?!?

WTFort How did I miss that? That SMB!

That bear has been missing for over a year.

He's probably in storage along with the River Country Wagon for use in that new DVC.

1 hour ago, WannaBeImagineer said:

I also think that's dumb about the benches, why do they keep replacing benches that are perfectly fine?  The logs were still good, and the new woods were couldn't have been bad they are practically new, why spend money on new ones?

WBI

Makes as much sense as when they replaced all of the perfectly good standard picnic tables with fancy square plastic tables and ripped out and tossed hundreds of grills and replaced them with a newer model that seemed to rust faster than the old ones.

All I can figure is that the beancounters have a budget, and they have to spend it on something.  The geniuses in charge don't have the first clue about what would actually improve the campground, so they throw money away on stuff like replacing perfectly good benches.

TCD

[keith_h 420]

We can't have them spend the money of Magic Band readers for the pool know can we?

[LONE-STAR 370]

How did I miss the bear being gone I just ate there last week. But had it been there my daughter would have stopped for a picture with it and she did not.

I will say I did like the brunch buffet.