Renovations Coming to Fort Wilderness - 2100 Loop

[djsamuel 322]

2 new loops is interesting.  Time will tell.

 

Thanks.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

9 hours ago, DinDavie said:

She was advised that they are taking reservations and there will be two new loops

 

9 minutes ago, djsamuel said:

2 new loops is interesting.  Time will tell.

 

Thanks.

Two new loops?

How?

Could they be making 1100 and 2100 into some new level of campsite?

TCD

[djsamuel 322]

31 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

 

Two new loops?

How?

Could they be making 1100 and 2100 into some new level of campsite?

TCD

I was wondering the same thing.  I assume "2 new loops" would not include 1100, since that is an existing loop, but what you said is certainly possible.  Are all of the other cabin loops refurbished?

I also keep wondering about those conduits that were placed under the walkway to Wilderness Lodge.  It wouldn't make sense for them to be running services TO the new villas since everything would be right there at the Lodge already.  However, all of that empty land across from the large group camping area (also across from the 2000 loop) could be developed into a new loop and those conduits may be to provide power to that area.  Totally conjecture on my part, but I have been wondering.  

There has been significant growth in the camping market, so perhaps Disney is looking to expand.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

15 minutes ago, djsamuel said:

I was wondering the same thing.  I assume "2 new loops" would not include 1100, since that is an existing loop, but what you said is certainly possible.  Are all of the other cabin loops refurbished?

I also keep wondering about those conduits that were placed under the walkway to Wilderness Lodge.  It wouldn't make sense for them to be running services TO the new villas since everything would be right there at the Lodge already.  However, all of that empty land across from the large group camping area (also across from the 2000 loop) could be developed into a new loop and those conduits may be to provide power to that area.  Totally conjecture on my part, but I have been wondering.  

There has been significant growth in the camping market, so perhaps Disney is looking to expand.

Interesting thoughts.  As far as I know, they are finishing up the cabin updates with the 2800 loop, and then all of the cabins will have been updated.  It doesn't look like any other cabins are going to be pulled.

There has always been talk about expanding the Fort and adding new loops, but I've always figured that the Fort was big enough.  I used to think adding new loops would require adding a new pool or expanding the existing ones, adding a new restaurant, and adding other infrastructure that would make it cost prohibitive.  But, times have changed, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them squeeze a new loop in somewhere and not add any new amenities.

One small issue I see with them making the 2100 loop something less than premium is that it is hard to justify categorizing the 1100 loop as premium with something cheaper right next door and even sharing the same comfort station.  But, that situation is present in the 1500 and 1600 loops, so I guess it wouldn't be a problem to have something similar with 1100 and 2100.

One are where they could easily add a campsite loop is the group camping area.  But, I haven't seen any signs of that happening.

TCD

[keith_h 420]

How often is the group camping area full? If it isn't much it could make sense to turn it into campsites that can be rented out when there is no group scheduled or to multiple smaller groups. Like what they were doing with that church group who would rent a bunch of sites. This way they could isolate them better and not disturb the regular guests.

[Travisma 1,317]

19 minutes ago, Tri-Circle-D said:

 

There has always been talk about expanding the Fort and adding new loops, but I've always figured that the Fort was big enough.  I used to think adding new loops would require adding a new pool or expanding the existing ones, adding a new restaurant, and adding other infrastructure that would make it cost prohibitive.  But, times have changed, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them squeeze a new loop in somewhere and not add any new amenities.

 

TCD

Remember, the all knowing Lou told me a while back that the Fort doesn't need any more loops.

He informed me that it's like a ghost town during most weekdays so it wouldn't make sense to expand.

[keith_h 420]

However the Fort is full on weekends and over holidays which is where I'm sure they make most of their money. If they add more sites I think their payback on the new sites would be fairly short even if some are empty during the week.  

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

6 minutes ago, keith_h said:

How often is the group camping area full? If it isn't much it could make sense to turn it into campsites that can be rented out when there is no group scheduled or to multiple smaller groups. Like what they were doing with that church group who would rent a bunch of sites. This way they could isolate them better and not disturb the regular guests.

It seems like I am generally camping at the Fort on holiday weekends, and the group camping area is usually pretty full at those times.  But, I'm sure there are a lot of weekends that it is never used, and I'll bet it isn't used at all on most weekdays.

They certainly could continue to squeeze groups into regular campsites.

6 minutes ago, Travisma said:

Remember, the all knowing Lou told me a while back that the Fort doesn't need any more loops.

He informed me that it's like a ghost town during most weekdays so it wouldn't make sense to expand.

Yes, I do remember that, and I respect what Lou has to say.  So I believe him that the Fort is a ghost town a lot of the year during the weekdays, and that it doesn't make financial sense to expand by adding new loops.  If it did, they would have done it long before now.

TCD

[djsamuel 322]

We stay there a lot during weekdays.  A year or two ago, it was pretty empty during the week.  Now there is a big difference.  While there will still be empty spots, there are many more sites occupied.  As an estimate, a few years ago, on a Wednesday, the 200 loop (where we normally stay) would be about 40% full.  Now it has been 70-80% full.  The sites start to fill Thursday and Friday, especially Friday.  Then a large drop off on Sunday and a few more on Monday.  So it seems now that Tuesday and Wednesday are the leaner days, but not like a couple of years ago.

[Seals 111]

But, unlike hotel rooms that would need some level of heating/cooling and dusting if they sat empty for a length of time, there's no cost to having empty campsites. And then if they could accommodate even more people ($$) during busy times it would be profitable IF those campers otherwise would be staying offsite or not visiting at all. 

[Travisma 1,317]

4 minutes ago, Seals said:

But, unlike hotel rooms that would need some level of heating/cooling and dusting if they sat empty for a length of time, there's no cost to having empty campsites. And then if they could accommodate even more people ($$) during busy times it would be profitable IF those campers otherwise would be staying offsite or not visiting at all. 

I had thought the same thing, none of the normal costs associated with keeping an empty room looking good and ready to go. Not a lot of common areas to maintain, hallways, giant lobbies, ballrooms, etc. 

They have tons of maintenance staff cleaning, polishing, touching up.  We've got Brown Paint Guy.

Plus you would think a lot less expense even when one is occupied, no towels, no heat/cool, no soaps, etc.

But others have said that the fort incurs a lot of sewer charges and grounds upkeep, but I cant see where the lawn care at the Fort would be more than the landscaped spots at all of the resorts.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

26 minutes ago, djsamuel said:

The sites start to fill Thursday and Friday, especially Friday.  Then a large drop off on Sunday and a few more on Monday. 

This was our experience the last couple of fall trips also on the non-holiday weeks.

[NLPRacing 4]

Adding more loops with premium sites could make sense as long as the cost of them sitting empty is less than the money they could make on them when the fort sells out.  

[tonyg30 1]

we did an over night last sat 06/04 and notice 2800 cabin loop is now closed with construction barriers across the entrance. Just an observation  

[WalkerFiend 22]

Interesting  discussion  about full or not on weekdays...  We did some looping last night on our way to/from the marina.  Maybe it's because schools are getting out now: At least in the loops I've visited so far , there aren't a whole lot of empty sites (my perception.) 

I was just thinking back:  In both of my past trips to the Fort at basically this same time of year - there have been entire loops left empty/closed. I have not seen one closed down or empty this year (well, not so far).

Just observations here.  I'm only on my third trip, and they've all been at about this same time... It seems a bit more full this time around.  

[Travisma 1,317]

3 hours ago, NLPRacing said:

Adding more loops with premium sites could make sense as long as the cost of them sitting empty is less than the money they could make on them when the fort sells out.  

In my simplistic view of the world, I would think that once a loop is built, there is not a lot of upkeep if it's occupied, and even less if it's empty.  I mean, how long does it take to blow, rake and hose down a site.  A lot less than scrubbing a bathroom, vacuuming a carpet, and changing lines. 

Yes it cost a bunch of money to build, but that's the cost of doing business, and it would be recouped a lot quicker than a comparable priced room at a resort.  Like I said previously, a room even when empty costs $ in heating cooling, electric, and all the costs of the common grounds inside the building and the rest of the grounds.

I guess if I ran the world, I would expand the Fort and make more people happy, even if it cut into my profits a bit.  I mean it's not like WDW is operating in the red and a slight drop in profit margin at one resort is going to bankrupt the Disney Empire.

[WalkerFiend 22]

3 hours ago, WalkerFiend said:

Interesting diacussion about full or not on weekdays...  We did some looping last night on our way to/from the marina.  Maybe it's because schools are getting out now: At least in the loops I've visited so far , there aren't a whole lot of empty sites (my perception.) 

I was just thinking back:  In both of my past trips to the Fort at basically this same time of year - there have been entire loops left empty/closed. I have not seen one closed down or empty this year (well, not so far).

Just observations here.  I'm only on my third trip, and they've all been at about this same time... It seems a bit more full this time around.  

Update:  I found the empty loops tonight!  1000 is completely empty (not blocked or anything, just 100% empty.)  Also in 1100 there were only two occupied sites.  

The other loops we visited were fairly, or completely full.

[djsamuel 322]

8 hours ago, WalkerFiend said:

Update:  I found the empty loops tonight!  1000 is completely empty (not blocked or anything, just 100% empty.)  Also in 1100 there were only two occupied sites.  

The other loops we visited were fairly, or completely full.

When we were there over Mother's Day weekend, the 100 loop and I believe 600 loop were totally empty.  They then came in and sprayed asphalt sealant on those loops.  We were back a couple of weeks later, and while open, the 100 loop smelled like freshly laid asphalt.  Perhaps these loops are the next in line.

[NLPRacing 4]

12 hours ago, Travisma said:

In my simplistic view of the world, I would think that once a loop is built, there is not a lot of upkeep if it's occupied, and even less if it's empty.  I mean, how long does it take to blow, rake and hose down a site.  A lot less than scrubbing a bathroom, vacuuming a carpet, and changing lines. 

Yes it cost a bunch of money to build, but that's the cost of doing business, and it would be recouped a lot quicker than a comparable priced room at a resort.  Like I said previously, a room even when empty costs $ in heating cooling, electric, and all the costs of the common grounds inside the building and the rest of the grounds.

I guess if I ran the world, I would expand the Fort and make more people happy, even if it cut into my profits a bit.  I mean it's not like WDW is operating in the red and a slight drop in profit margin at one resort is going to bankrupt the Disney Empire.

That's what I was thinking.  It's got to cost them more to not have premium sites to rent out during peak times than to have empty sites during slow times.

[keith_h 420]

12 hours ago, Travisma said:

In my simplistic view of the world, I would think that once a loop is built, there is not a lot of upkeep if it's occupied, and even less if it's empty.  I mean, how long does it take to blow, rake and hose down a site.  A lot less than scrubbing a bathroom, vacuuming a carpet, and changing lines. 

Yes it cost a bunch of money to build, but that's the cost of doing business, and it would be recouped a lot quicker than a comparable priced room at a resort.  Like I said previously, a room even when empty costs $ in heating cooling, electric, and all the costs of the common grounds inside the building and the rest of the grounds.

I guess if I ran the world, I would expand the Fort and make more people happy, even if it cut into my profits a bit.  I mean it's not like WDW is operating in the red and a slight drop in profit margin at one resort is going to bankrupt the Disney Empire.

To be honest it really doesn't cost that much to build a campsite. The biggest item would be running utility mains and a CS to the site if they don't already exist. After that the rest is not really that expensive. For something like the 2100 loop, not counting the cabin removal as I have no idea what that would cost, my guess is Disney is paying less than $5K per site to convert a them. I suspect new sites would be along the line of $10k-$15K per site. I base this on quotes I have had to extend my driveway for another 30 ft and what I know electricians and plumbers would charge to run electrical and water/sewer for roughly the same distance. After they are built the only real ongoing fixed costs I can think of is lighting, cleaning the CS and general grounds keeping all of which are pretty inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. At $100/night minus fixed costs it really would take that many nights to break even.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

14 hours ago, tonyg30 said:

we did an over night last sat 06/04 and notice 2800 cabin loop is now closed with construction barriers across the entrance. Just an observation  

Thanks for posting.  It's great to have Fiends on the scene.

The 2800 loop has been closed off for a few weeks.  From what I've seen, what they're doing in there is no different from what they've done on the other cabin loops- new decks and new interiors.  They've been at this for right at a year now, and this is the last cabin loop they've worked on.

9 hours ago, WalkerFiend said:

Update:  I found the empty loops tonight!  1000 is completely empty (not blocked or anything, just 100% empty.)  Also in 1100 there were only two occupied sites.  

The other loops we visited were fairly, or completely full.

Good job.  It will be interesting to hear about what they do there.

1 hour ago, djsamuel said:

When we were there over Mother's Day weekend, the 100 loop and I believe 600 loop were totally empty.  They then came in and sprayed asphalt sealant on those loops.  We were back a couple of weeks later, and while open, the 100 loop smelled like freshly laid asphalt.  Perhaps these loops are the next in line.

Good point.  The pavement on all the loops is about the same age now, so it makes sense that there will be pavement work on the other loops.

TCD

[articfox676 11]

Would it be safe to say the increase in rv sales of types also increases demand for rv sites?  How could they go wrong with more sites. How many repeat cabin stays are there compared to rvers?

[mommy rainbo.....Bo 41]

4 hours ago, articfox676 said:

Would it be safe to say the increase in rv sales of types also increases demand for rv sites?  How could they go wrong with more sites. How many repeat cabin stays are there compared to rvers?

That is a good question.  We love Disney.  We are Cabin Dwellers..  We do not camp...but love the Fort and will not stay anywhere else.  That being said.  Because of the cost of the room charge we can only afford a trip every 20-24 months or so.   Basically we come every 2 years for a week and spend well.   If it(the room charge( was cheaper we would come more often and spend our $ on Disney food.drinks and stuff.  So it is beach one year, Disney one year.    I think Cabin dwellers do not return as often as true campers due to the 300-400 a night cost.  (we normally come during the month of December).  

[WalkerFiend 22]

Well, I can attest to the place filling up on weekends!  The empty loops I'd mentioned above, we're both full by last night.

i will add...  We basically bought our camper just so we could come to Disney and stay att he fort.  We've been back three years in a row.  We will probably do a beach next year, but I have no doubt we'll be back here again.

[DramaMama .......... Janet 75]

Not sure if this comes under "rennovatios" or not but the old pay phone boxes are being taken down this morning at the 1500 comfort station.