The Wilderness Must be Destroyed!

[Cortezcapt (Derek) 156]

I'm hoping that Disney saw the error they made with the Poly bungalows.  But I do think Disney has realized (finally) that not every family has 4 people and the need for suits and bigger rooms in general.  The Poly studios had sleeping room for 5 and a bath and a half.  I'd have to think that they are planning to add higher occupancy rooms along that line.

But if they add higher occupancy rooms then families won't have to book 2 or more rooms!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

15 hours ago, PGHFiend said:

Change is hard to take, but I'm sure they will put in some trees from the tree farm that will look the part and not be damaged during the work. Don't forget all of Disney is man made, and for whatever reason we all like it so much, we feel we have some say in the operation, which we never will. 

Now, if they started clearing trees for sone more sites, we'd all be on board.

 

Not so fast.

All of Disney World is not man-made.

Bay Lake existed before Disney came along.

In fact, it was the beauty of Bay Lake and the surrounding wilderness that drew Walt to the area when he surveyed it from his private airplane.

And, the men who made the initial plans to build Fort Wilderness endeavored to preserve that wilderness.

That was a point of pride in the early days, as can be seen from this old Fort Wilderness check-in packet:

 

Please read what is written there.

Do you see that part in the second paragraph where it says "that development would be undertaken only if the area's natural beauty cold be effectively preserved."

Read the third paragraph.  Even today, you can see evidence of the care taken to not destroy the wilderness at the Fort- there are cabin decks that were built around trees.  There are roads that were designed and paved to allow trees that were there first to stay.

Now, take a look at this old Fort Wilderness brochure:

Look at the third paragraph, where they boast how "centuries-old cypress trees stand beside tall pines and flowering bay trees."  That is not just fluff- it's true, and most of those old cypress trees were along the banks of Bay Lake.  A lot of them are still there.  But the ones that were preserved when they built the Villas at Wilderness Lodge are now gone.  Those centuries-old cypress trees and tall pines are what they just clear cut.

In case you are still laboring under the misconception that "all of Disney is man made," please take a look at these old photos, which come from the State of Florida archives, showing a group which included Roy Disney inspecting the property that the Disney Corporate entities had purchased.  These show how the property looked before any development, back in 1967:

You see that guy with the glasses and dark sweater standing in the boat?  That's Roy Disney.  You see that big old lake in the background?  That's Bay Lake.  You see all those trees?   Those are the centuries-old cypress trees and tall pines. Those were all left alone when Walt Disney World was developed, and the entire shoreline was left natural.  Up until a few weeks ago.

Here's another photo taken at the same time- if you are at all familiar with Bay Lake, you will recognize the lone cypress tree that we all know as the "Shoe Tree" standing there in the lake:

Everything you see in that photo was left alone when they built Disney World.

But now, a pretty big stretch of the natural shoreline right behind that lone cypress tree has been clear cut so they can build 26 bungalows that only very rich people can afford.

If you don't think that's a big deal and a complete departure from the philosophy the company has followed for the past 50 years, then I don't know what to say other than you're wrong.  But,  the sad thing is that your opinion will probably sit well with the majority of people these days-seriously- who cares about trees and nature and stuff?  They can just bring some new trees in there from the tree farm.  I'll race you to the bungalow!

TCD

[Travisma 1,317]

How are the guests going to get to the bungalows, and in fact how do the Poly guests get to theirs?  Seems like the parking lots are quite a ways from either of them.  Is there someone chauffeuring them in golf carts and delivering their luggage to them?

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

44 minutes ago, Travisma said:

How are the guests going to get to the bungalows, and in fact how do the Poly guests get to theirs?  

That's something I've wondered about the Poly bungalows too.  It's an awfully long walk to the monorail.

[Travisma 1,317]

8 minutes ago, CCIntrigue...aka Gwen said:

That's something I've wondered about the Poly bungalows too.  It's an awfully long walk to the monorail.

We walked from the Ticket/Transportation Center to the Poly to get a REAL Dole Whip Swirl.  Didn't know where we were going,  got detoured by construction walls, but did walk past the bungalows, and they are a long haul from the parking lot.  In fact some wings of the Poly are far also.  I did see a couple of the big golf cats with a pick up truck type of bed on the back with luggage and groceries driving around.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Regarding how the bungalow guests get to their bungalows, it does look like a bit of a hike at the Polynesian, but there is that parking lot over there to the right, and they clearly have pathways that are plenty wide for golf carts that travel right in front of the bungalows:

Now, at the Lodge, the parking lot is quite a ways from the bungalows:

I had to break out my red crayon for this- look at the plans again- there are two new little parking lots- each with the exact number of spaces corresponding with the number of bungalows on that side of the complex:

I'm surprised they didn't just go ahead and give each bungalow a driveway for the guests to park their Range Rovers.  There is plenty of space now that those ancient trees have been removed.

TCD

[PGHFiend 140]

TCD, I'm  sorry you are so outraged  about the trees, and I dont have time or desire to write half of what you wrote to me but, of course I know that bay lake was there from the beginning.  There were once trees where the MK and parking lots are too, and I hope you are not still mourning their fate. If you want untouched prestine land, try a national park for a change.  I personally think they do a pretty good job of talking care of the nature that they maintain and OWN, and I recognize I have zero say in what they do with it, just like they have none with my land.   

If you dont like it, stop going or spending money there and realize some relationships run their course whether we want them to or not .

[Hammer bird 6]

I stayed at the Poly in Oct.  Yes they do drive you to your room in a cart if you wish.  Also the parking lot that "appears to be" close is really not that close.  And of course the walkways aren't in a strait line.

[Avatab.... Steve 124]

5 hours ago, PGHFiend said:

TCD, I'm  sorry you are so outraged  about the trees, and I dont have time or desire to write half of what you wrote to me but, of course I know that bay lake was there from the beginning.  There were once trees where the MK and parking lots are too, and I hope you are not still mourning their fate. If you want untouched prestine land, try a national park for a change.  I personally think they do a pretty good job of talking care of the nature that they maintain and OWN, and I recognize I have zero say in what they do with it, just like they have none with my land.   

If you dont like it, stop going or spending money there and realize some relationships run their course whether we want them to or not .

As some here know I have a love-hate relationship with Disney trees after one fell on top of my Class C several years ago at the Fort....

And I do agree with you that they own the property and have mostly done a good job with landscaping, and I also agree that if they were cutting trees to make more campsites we would all be on board!

But you have to agree that it's ironic that they would be clear cutting wilderness at a place called the "Wilderness Lodge" especially after they did such a careful job of keeping that wilderness surrounding the original DVC buildings.

Is it just a necessary step and they will restore the original "feel" of the place? Maybe.

Or maybe it's more of the same attitude that was going to put a huge parking lot right next to Pioneer Hall..... (and still might)

I think we'll have to wait and see who's right, long term WDW history is with you, but recent Disney decisions tend to support TCD's skepticism.

 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

15 hours ago, PGHFiend said:

TCD, I'm  sorry you are so outraged  about the trees, and I dont have time or desire to write half of what you wrote to me but, of course I know that bay lake was there from the beginning.  There were once trees where the MK and parking lots are too, and I hope you are not still mourning their fate. If you want untouched prestine land, try a national park for a change.  I personally think they do a pretty good job of talking care of the nature that they maintain and OWN, and I recognize I have zero say in what they do with it, just like they have none with my land.   

If you dont like it, stop going or spending money there and realize some relationships run their course whether we want them to or not .

Fair enough. 

For the record, I'm not outraged. I would say I'm just really disappointed.  And sad that the current regime has so little respect for what was done in the past.

It's interesting to look at how the original DVC Villas at Wilderness Lodge building was designed and built.  It was the first DVC to be appended to a Deluxe Resort, and they built it in a way that it would fit in and be unobtrusive.  Guests at the Lodge really can't even see it, and I'll bet most don't even know it's there. Only parts of it were visible from Bay Lake- and you'd really have to look hard to even see those parts.  The building itself is beautiful, and the way it sat surrounded by unspoiled wilderness was really nice.

Fast forward to Bay Lake Tower.  They certainly didn't try to hide that monstrosity.  But, it was built in the footprint of land that was already cleared and developed, and it doesn't really impact the view of any guest at the Contemporary Resort. 

Same deal at the Grand Floridian- the DVC building there is a separate building that completely blends in with the existing resort.  They did a good job making that complement what was already there.

Then came the Polynesian bungalows.  They stick out like a sore thumb.  They are the polar opposite of unobtrusive. Everyone sees them, and they have ruined the beach that used to be a great amenity for all Polynesian guests.

Which brings us to the DVC expansion at Wilderness Lodge.  Instead of a secluded wooded environment, everyone will now be treated to a view of these 26 cabanas lining the shoreline on both sides of the resort.  Those are as "in your face" as anything can be.

It's a shame.

As I already said, I know my opinion is in the minority.  A heck of a lot of people at Disney had to agree that this is a great idea, or else it wouldn't be happening. You're lucky that it doesn't bother you.

TCD

[Retired and Happy (Ken) 101]

TCD, I don't think you are in the minority for those of us who have been familiar with Walt's Dream and the original layout of the Bay Lake/Seven Seas areas.  These new constructions will be accepted by the new millennials who never knew the relaxed atmosphere of the lakes.  The same goes for the new construction in the Parks.  They won't know what thy are missing from the "old days".  "Everyman" will be priced out, and WDW will become a playground for the rich and famous...much as things like the Super Bowl is not an on-site football game for football fans. 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

It's time for an update on the progress of this project, which began right at the first of the year.   So, they're entering the 9th month of construction.

Here's how things looked on Saturday, September 10, 2016:

The pathway to the waterfront trail is still blocked off:

Those mysterious railcars are still sitting outside of the construction entrance:

You can see some of the new cabin buildings are framed out behind the trees here:

I'm not sure what they're doing with the old maintenance access for the DVC building, but they're still doing it:

On the way in to the DVC building, I noticed that they apparently moved the rental bike operation up to the covered walkway by the bus stops:

Here's how construction progress looks now:

In those photos, you can see that they are continuing to work on the big new building that apparently is going to be a new restaurant.  They also have one of the cabins framed out.  They seem much larger than the bungalows at the Polynesian, and, interestingly, sit pretty far back from the lake.

Also, you can see that they have the pool dug and framed, and ready for concrete.  You can see more of the pool outline in this photo:

The pool seems to be one shallow depth.  It's at least double the size of the old pool, but looks kind of blah.

Now we are on ground level, peeking over the fence:

There are a lot of cabins, and they're close together.  It looks like they're going to have chimneys, but I wonder if they will only be decorative:

You can't see the pool outline from ground level:

They are continuing to add on to the sides of that new big building, and it's getting bigger:

 

There's going to be a lot of open space in this area.  I still am sad they chose to clear-cut the trees:

That's all I have of the construction.  They're clearly going to be at least through the end of the year on this.  The pool seems far enough along that possibly they will be opening it before the rest of the project is done.  I think they should- it's pretty unfair to the existing DVC members to have gone without their pool for so long.

Here's all the rental bikes on the walkway to the bus stop:

Because people often ask about bike racks, here's one behind the bus stop:

That's all I have for this update.

TCD

[ftwildernessguy 778]

"Sit back and relax in your private rustic cabin in the wilderness, complete with a genuine electric fireplace to take the chill off those cold Florida nights.  If it gets warm out, it's just a short walk to the cement pond built exclusively for bungalow guests. "

[FunFinder265....Cody 36]

On September 12, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Tri-Circle-D said:

 

 

Well at lease these guests have a nice view for their Halloween and Christmas holidays.

 

 

Cody

[Travisma 1,317]

On September 12, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Tri-Circle-D said:

It's time for an update on the progress of this project, which began right at the first of the year.   So, they're entering the 9th month of construction.

Here's how things looked on Saturday, September 10, 2016:

The pathway to the waterfront trail is still blocked off:

Those mysterious railcars are still sitting outside of the construction entrance:

You can see some of the new cabin buildings are framed out behind the trees here:

I'm not sure what they're doing with the old maintenance access for the DVC building, but they're still doing it:

On the way in to the DVC building, I noticed that they apparently moved the rental bike operation up to the covered walkway by the bus stops:

Here's how construction progress looks now:

In those photos, you can see that they are continuing to work on the big new building that apparently is going to be a new restaurant.  They also have one of the cabins framed out.  They seem much larger than the bungalows at the Polynesian, and, interestingly, sit pretty far back from the lake.

Also, you can see that they have the pool dug and framed, and ready for concrete.  You can see more of the pool outline in this photo:

The pool seems to be one shallow depth.  It's at least double the size of the old pool, but looks kind of blah.

Now we are on ground level, peeking over the fence:

There are a lot of cabins, and they're close together.  It looks like they're going to have chimneys, but I wonder if they will only be decorative:

You can't see the pool outline from ground level:

They are continuing to add on to the sides of that new big building, and it's getting bigger:

 

There's going to be a lot of open space in this area.  I still am sad they chose to clear-cut the trees:

That's all I have of the construction.  They're clearly going to be at least through the end of the year on this.  The pool seems far enough along that possibly they will be opening it before the rest of the project is done.  I think they should- it's pretty unfair to the existing DVC members to have gone without their pool for so long.

Here's all the rental bikes on the walkway to the bus stop:

Because people often ask about bike racks, here's one behind the bus stop:

That's all I have for this update.

TCD

They have rental bikes on those racks also.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

We are well past the one-year mark on this construction project, and it's still not done.

But, they're getting close.

Last week, they opened up the new Geyser Point Bar and Grill, and we've already had some reports and photos from Fiends who have visited there.  But, what about the rest of the project?

I headed over there for a look this past weekend.

I hopped the bus from the Fort.

We know that one of the old train cars that were sitting outside the construction entrance is now on display behind the Geyser Point Bar and Grill building.

The other one is still sitting outside the construction fence:

Note that it now has a Boulder Ridge decal slapped on it, just like the one on display:

You can see that the area behind the construction fence still looks very much like a construction zone- those are the new cabins you see back there behind the dirt:

Here at the Wilderness Lodge, they are still conducting the bike rental operation from the breezeway between the Lodge and DVC buildings:

At first glance, it doesn't look like anything has changed here at the DVC Villas:

Did you miss the new sign?:

That Mickey Mouse topiary that was once the subject of a Troll Rant^TM is still here:

Everything looked OK and normal outside of the Villas entrance.  I love the furniture they have here:

Everything looked fine in the Carollwood Pacific Room and the Lobby:

I hopped they elevator to the top floor for some photos from the lone window they have in the hallway up there.  Here are a couple of shots at slightly different angles:

In the first of the two photos above, you can see the new Geyser Point Bar and Grill at the top center.  Closer, you can see the big new pool and a ridge of fake boulders that is being built to separate the pool area from the walkway to the DVC cabins, which you see to the right in the photo.

In both of the photos, you can see the pre-existing bike and boat rental shack is still in place.  In the second photo, all the way to the right, you can see a building with a dark roof and grey walls.  This is not a DVC cabin- it is somehow related to the pool. It could be a building for the pool equipment and restrooms, but it could be something else.

Now we're looking toward the left of the area shown in those last two photos.  Over here, at the far left, we can see another building.  This looks more like a pool equipment building to me:

That whole wing of the existing Wilderness Lodge building has been closed off for the past year, and they are making all of those former hotel rooms into DVC rooms.  You can't see it very well in this photo, but all of those sliding glass doors are covered with plastic from the inside to protect them from the construction that's going on inside:

Here's one more look at the pool- they have forms around something that they're building in the center of it, which I thought might be a hot tub, but on further examination, I think it's going to be some kind of water feature, like a cascading waterfall into the pool:

When we take a closer look, we can see the steps for a ladder built into the pool wall, which makes it look like guests will have access to whatever might be going on in the center of the pool.  We can also see where that other rail car ended up there on the other side of the construction fence:

Now we are back on ground level, out behind the Villas building. There's a chain link and fabric construction fence around the whole project, but there are plenty of gaps in the fabric that allow a glimpse of what's going on behind the curtain.  Here's a look at that building we saw over to the right in those first two photos taken from the 6th floor. That is not one of the DVC cabins.  It's something else:

Here are a bunch more photos of the pool construction taken through the fence at ground level. You can see that they are building plenty of boulders around the pool.  Nobody makes fake rocks better than Disney:

Now, here's that other, smaller, building we saw from above.  This looks more like an equipment building, but it is in a very prominent spot.  Maybe it's going to be a bar dedicated solely to this pool?  I don't know:

Here's a look across the pool toward the cabins- there sure are a lot of boulders already, and I don't think they're done with the boulders:

Now we are close to the original Lodge building, and we can see that there will be a walkway outside of the pool area.  My guess is that the pool will be fenced off and enclosed, and this walkway will let guests get back to the Geyser Point area:

This layout makes me think that the Geyser Point Bar and Grill will be considered an amenity for both the hotel and DVC, along with the bike and boat rentals, but the rest of the stuff back here is going to be enclosed and gated off for the exclusive use of DVC guests.

Here's where they keep the porta potties:

One more look at that rectangular building.  It doesn't have a lot of windows, which makes me think that it will be an equipment building, or restrooms.  But, it could also make a nice bar.  Maybe a combination of all of those things?:

From here, I walked through the Wilderness Lodge lobby, and all the way back to the Geyser Point area.  From here, I took this shot of the walkway we just looked at from the other end:

Here's something interesting- they have a new map posted behind the Geyser Point building showing the layout of the Wilderness Lodge resort including the new pool and cabins:

Those two buildings I speculated about above are shown on the map as being part of the pool area, with red dots marking them as locations that will be identified at some point in the future.  Also, note that there is no hot tub shown in that area we looked at in the center of the pool- it looks like it will be a waterfall, and it looks like there's some kind of water feature that will spill out of there and under the path to the cabins.  I also see what looks like it will be an archway that will probably include a gate blocking access to the path to the cabins.  Also, note those rectangular objects shown on the side of the pool away from the boulder ridge- I'll bet those are going to be permanent cabanas:

From the looks of things, I'd guess that they are shooting for a summer opening date for all of this. 

It's going to be nice when they're done.  At least for the wealthy DVC owners who can afford the $2000 a night cabins.

And I still liked the trees better.

TCD

[DaveInTN 3,247]

When we visited last week I took note of the Reunion Station on the back side of GP, and it is noted on the map. Is that a typical DVC amenity?

Sent from my handheld doohickie

[DaveInTN 3,247]

I also took this shot of the new cabins on the north side of the resort. Other than maybe closer access to the boats and possibly some MK view, I don't like this location.

Sent from my handheld doohickie

[shoreline99 137]

I took a photo from one of the boats when we went by those cabins. I don't mind the ones facing discovery island/bay lake, but those cabins facing the contemporary and water bridge area really don't blend into the landscape at all and are way too close to the shoreline, IMHO.

[Travisma 1,317]

3 minutes ago, shoreline99 said:

I took a photo from one of the boats when we went by those cabins. I don't mind the ones facing discovery island/bay lake, but those cabins facing the contemporary and water bridge area really don't blend into the landscape at all and are way too close to the shoreline, IMHO.

And you get to hear the buses all day and most of the night traveling to the MK bus depot and the Contemporary.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

43 minutes ago, DaveInTN said:

When we visited last week I took note of the Reunion Station on the back side of GP, and it is noted on the map. Is that a typical DVC amenity?

My guess is that it is the DVC's Community Hall.  Most of the other DVC resorts have one.  It's a place where they have activities for the kids and you can rent DVD's and such.  None of the others are in as prominent a location as this one, though.

41 minutes ago, DaveInTN said:

I also took this shot of the new cabins on the north side of the resort. Other than maybe closer access to the boats and possibly some MK view, I don't like this location.

 

It looks like a cheap 1970's subdivision.  Those cabins are so close to each other!

11 minutes ago, shoreline99 said:

I took a photo from one of the boats when we went by those cabins. I don't mind the ones facing discovery island/bay lake, but those cabins facing the contemporary and water bridge area really don't blend into the landscape at all and are way too close to the shoreline, IMHO.

Not only that, but they are far away from all of the Wilderness Lodge amenities. It is a serious hike from there to the lobby, and even further to the new Geyser Point restaurant and pool.  I can't believe that they didn't try to balance things out by putting something nice on that side for these cabin people. They get nothing.

6 minutes ago, Travisma said:

And you get to hear the buses all day and most of the night traveling to the MK bus depot and the Contemporary.

True.  They built a berm and planted some trees, but the road is still right there, and every bus to and from the MK uses it.

TCD

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

This post is for the two gentlemen who mocked this thread (and me) on a now defunct message board.

The Orange County Property Appraiser has finally updated the aerial photos of the Wilderness Lodge area on his site, so we can look at some before and after shots.

Here's how things looked in the area of the existing DVC building in 2015:

See all of those nice trees?

RIP:

Same deal on the other side of the original Lodge building:

2015:

2016:

RIP:

Here's an overview of the whole property.

2015:

2016:

Oh well.

It's Disney's land, so none of us have any right to express our opinions about how bad this looks, or how awful it is that they clear cut the Wilderness for which this resort was named just so a select few rich people can enjoy those $2000 a night cabins and swim in that fancy new pool.

Those new trees from the tree farm will get the job done just fine.

TCD

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Going back to this photo, and my speculation about what they have framed out in that area that juts into the pool:

We can see in this artists' rendering from the Disney Parks Blog that there is no hot tub there.  Maybe it's a planter for the trees they show will be planted there?

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2016/11/new-amenities-coming-soon-to-disneys-wilderness-lodge/

I can also see that there isn't a waterfall, but it does look like there's a little stream of water that runs along the base of the boulders.

Also, I can see that there are going to be permanent cabanas there along the side of the pool closest to the DVC building.  I still can't figure out what that building on the far left might be.  I'm going with a combined equipment room/restrooms.

TCD

[Beckers 1,136]

Is the water bridge road the only access point to the MK backstage area?? I'm wondering if tractor trailers will be rumbling past the cabins all night too?

 

 

nevermind I googled and see there are other roads.

[Travisma 1,317]

When we went by the pool, there was a CM with a clipboard at every entrance to the pool deck area.  I guess they don't have card/MB readers installed yet?