Fifth wheel with bunks, Suggestions anyone?

[stockboys10 2]

Well it seems as though we have talked ourselves into a bigger camper. Started with a 1500 and a 30' TT, Moved up to the 2500 HD Diesel and well now we want a bigger trailer. (Watch out Nacole if you get that bigger truck)

 

Here is what our top choice is within our budget so far, Its not perfect but darn close:

 

Keystone Cougar 336bhs Fifth Wheel

 

http://www.keystonerv.com/cougar/models/336bhs/model-mobile

 

It has almost everything we are wanting with the exception of a bathroom with a door to the outside

 

If anyone has any suggestions we would love to hear them, We are open to new or 2-3 yrs old. 

 

Here is what our dream would be. We want to be under $50k, I would prefer closer to $40k

 

Restriction is price and weight, want the trailer to be no more then 12k -13k lbs. Keystone we like is 10.5k Lbs

 

Must haves:

 

Bunk house of some sorts with a real door

Queen or king in master

Reasonable shower with a door, no curtains

outdoor kitchen with stove

auto level jacks. 

 

wants:

double opposing slides in main area

Some sort of direct to outside bathroom, either the main bath or ideally a 2nd half bath with exterior door

Large kitchen space with plenty of storage and counters

Dual A/C

 

 

So if anyone knows of a floorplan we may like let us know, There are just SOOOO many options between the used and new that it is hard to decide. 

 

We would be totally happy with the keystone and have a dealer that has one on order with the exact options we would choose that we can reserve for late august delivery but we will have to act soon. 

 

Thanks in advance

Adam

[bhall 115]

Adam, that is a nice floor plan and trailer but I'm going to have to be "That Guy" and rain on your parade.  That trailer is most likely not a good choice for your truck.  Yes, you have a diesel...yes you can tow all the weight in the world with it but no, your payload is most likely shot and you will be most likely overweight.  You need to find the payload/tire sticker on your 2500.  It should be in the drivers door.  This sticker is going to be your best friend and worst enemy at the same time.  The sticker looks like this on my Chevy 2500 which is a gasser:

 

I circled my payload capacity for you to see.  You will see that as it left the factory it is rated to haul 2,831 lbs.  Included in that figure is a full tank of gas (36gal x 8.3lbs = 298.8lbs) and a 150 lb. driver.  That figure doesn't include your weight over 150 if that applies, your passenger(s) weight, your pets weight, the bedliner if equipped, the 5th wheel hitch and anything else you put in and on the truck.  You must subtract that weight then from the payload amount.  That will give you a basis of what you can haul.  Since you have a diesel and it's a 4x4, your payload is greatly diminished.  I'm going to assume that it is also a crew cab.  I'm not sure what trim line your 2500 is but the more bells and whistles you have the lower your payload rating goes down.  I'm going to estimate at best your payload rating is around 2000-2300 lbs?

The stats on that camper are as follow:

 

Dry Weight:                  10,595

Cargo Capacity:             1,695

Dry Hitch Weight:            1,890

 

Ok, with those numbers posted, two of those you can dismiss because they will never be as low as the factory states.  The camper will never be as light as the Dry Weight.  You will throw all your stuff and food and possibly water in the tanks.  Chances are you might add 400-600 lbs of cargo into that camper.  The other flawed number will be the Dry Hitch Weight.  You will never have it that low either.  The only weigh to truly find out  your hitch weight is to have your truck and camper weighed and then weigh your truck separately.  Then you will know your hitch weight for that particular trip.  That number will also fluctuate depending on what you load into that camper.  Lots of people say the hitch weight is 15-25% of the camper weight.  Keystone is figuring the hitch weight to be 16% of the camper.  Lots of people also recommend that you should have a 20% safety margin in unused payload.

 

So, lets say you have 500 lbs of stuff loaded into the camper (it adds up real fast and this figure may be lower then what you really carry) that will make your weight now:

11, 095 lbs

 

Now let's figure out your hitch weight using Keystone's percentage

11,095 x 16%=

1775 lbs

 

So let's use the highest payload number I estimated above and start estimating other weights to apply to the payload.

 2,300 lbs Payload

-1,775 lbs Estimated Hitch Weight =

    525 lbs remaining.

 

Ok, but we're not done yet.  You now have to subtract the weight of the 5th wheel hitch.  I  have a Reese 16k Slider Hitch.  The hitch minus the rails weighs 142 lbs.  So, with the rails lets bump it up to 150 lbs.

 

    525 lbs remaining payload

  -150 lbs Sliding Hitch =

    375 lbs remaining.  You might be able to use a standard hitch if you have a longer bed and the corners of the 5th wheel are angled.

 

Now from that number above you need to subtract your weight difference over 150 lbs, your wife's weight, your kids weight, possible pets and anything else that is in there, plus any accessories that have been added to the truck.
I'll let you figure out those weight numbers for yourself. You need to find that sticker and the weight listed on there and start figuring out how much all of your stuff weighs and figure this out on your own. 

Some people on here might tell you just to put air bags on your truck, but air bags DO NOT increase your payload capacity at all.  They just level out the load so your headlights aren't pointing up in the sky like a lot of the Ford F-250 Powerstrokes at the campgrounds visiting here :)  You can increase payload mechanically with higher capacity springs, tires and wheels (basically turn it into a 3500 SRW) but to have your GVWR and Payload legally re-certified is a nightmare and it might be easier to just buy a 3500 truck.

 

I would like to have a larger 5er as well but I'm up against the payload and the one I want is going to be overweight for me as well.

http://www.forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=172&Image=5064&ModelID=853#Main

Forest River/Salem figures their hitch weight out to be 19.9%.  There really should be a standard practice in the industry.

I have been considering going back to a travel trailer as the hitch weights are usually 1/2 of what the 5ers are.  I also could back my old 33' TT better into spots and my driveway better then my current 29' 5er.  You may also want to consider looking at similar floor plans in the Travel Trailer lines because of your payload limitations.

 

Good luck with your search. 

 

One last thing for you to consider if you start asking the dealer/salesman about your payload questions.  "how can you tell the Camper Salesman is lying?"  His Lips are moving.....

They'll tell you anything to get you in the camper.  That's how I ended up with my current 5er.  "Sure, your truck can tow it"  I didn't know better.  I was naive and only know about Towing Capacity.  Yes it was much lighter then my TT I was trading in but I learned a very valuable lesson on payload capacity in a very short time.  And it was very expensive lesson, with higher monthly payments.  Last July 17th, I opened up every door on the 2500's on the lot and bought the highest payload after we figured the dog cages would fit in the back seat area with the seat folded up.  At that time we weren't considering a bigger 5er but  I wish I would've waited a week and bought the 3500s when they came in on the lot.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Haha Adam... no, even with a bigger truck, we're not bumping up anytime soon.  We'll just enjoy yours! 

[Helmsey......Todd 134]

Haha Adam... no, even with a bigger truck, we're not bumping up anytime soon.  We'll just enjoy yours! 

 

Famous last words.... :D

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Famous last words.... :D

Shhh.... I will not give in, I will not give in    Heck, we can't afford to give in!  Plus, if we went any larger... I really think we'd do a Class A; that may be an option we look at in 5 years.  

[stockboys10 2]

Thanks Bhall, 

 

We are aware of the payload issues especially with the 4x4 and diesel eating into the payload. The truck is actually stickered at right around 2k if i remember correctly. We are planning to move the suspension to the 3500 SRW suspension which will gain us the 1200 lbs of payload I need. The 3500 srw has a payload of just over 4k on the 1ton frame. Obviously the 3500 chassis would be best but have you ever ridden in one? Rough as can be. 

 

But great info!