Globetrotting: to Disneyland Paris and back with TCD

[mommy rainbo.....Bo 41]

Very interesting read so far.   Not a place I would put at the top of my places to visit.    

[DaveInTN 3,247]

DLP SMB.

[jmaul 65]

Thanks for the Davy Crockett inside scoop.

 

Great reporting.

 

Looking forward to Paris.

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

Yes 30A, but not Topsail. We stayed at Gulf Place. It was different but nice.

I wonder if the princesses spoke English or French.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Very interesting read so far.   Not a place I would put at the top of my places to visit.    

 

With WDW and Disneyland being so much cheaper to visit and being so much better, there is no reason anyone in America should have Disneyland Paris on a list of top places to visit.

 

DLP SMB.

 

I can't argue with that.

 

Thanks for the Davy Crockett inside scoop.

 

Great reporting.

 

Looking forward to Paris.

 

Glad you're liking the report.

 

We will be in Paris soon.

 

Yes 30A, but not Topsail. We stayed at Gulf Place. It was different but nice.

I wonder if the princesses spoke English or French.

 

I'm sure it was nice.

 

I don't know about the princesses.  I'll bet they spoke both French and English.  There were very few people we met in France who did not speak English, and England is obviously a huge market for DLP.

 

TCD

[CCIntrigue...aka Gwen 547]

I'm looking forward to Paris pics too.  DCR was such a disappointment, but I'm very happy to have seen all these pics.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Before we get to the final DLP park photos, let's take a moment to look at some more information about all of the construction activity going on around Davy Crockett Ranch.

 

As mentioned earlier, there's a big project being built all around Davy Crockett Ranch called Villages Nature.

 

But, this is the current view that I saw on Google Maps before I left home (and it's still the view now) :

 

 

The entrance to Davy Crockett Ranch is over to the left on that photo, and you can see that there's a road that extends from that and to the loops.  Kind of like the Fort. 

 

The distance from the check-in area to the loops is even similar- take a look:

 

 

As best I can figure, when they planned Davy Crockett Ranch, the plan was to go ahead and build a bunch of loops, and leave an area in between for future expansion.  That's how they did it at the Fort.  The current cabin loops got built much later than the original camping loops.

 

The views on Google are obviously a couple or more years old.

 

The Villages Nature site currently has these photos which show the progress of their project.  Here's a link.  Photo credit for the rest of the photos on this post go to that site: http://www.villagesnature.com/en/villages-nature-a-birds-eye-view-2/

 

This first photo is dated August 14, 2013, and looks a lot like the current Google photo- not much has happened in terms of construction, and the entry road from the check-in area to the loops is shown:

 

 

 

In case you need help figuring out where everything is in that photo and the next ones, here's a purple crayon annotated version of that same "before" photo:

 

 

This photo, from November 13, 2013, shows a bit of clearing, but no change in the entry road:

 

 

Just four months later, on March 20, 2014, this photo show areas have been cleared south of the cabin loops:

 

 

The next photo is from July 31, 2014- you can still see the entry road, but there are large areas on either side of it that have been cleared:

 

 

This photo from October 31, 2014 shows that the entry road has disappeared and been absorbed into the massive construction site.  Traffic to and from the loops is now being routed to the north, around all of the construction, and then in the area of Davy's Village, it turns back south and toward the loops.  The traffic that I saw passing on the other side of the fence behind the bee hives was actually people coming and going from the loops:

 

 

This is the most recent photo they have on the site- from February 7 of this year.  It shows that things are still very much torn up all around the resort:

 

 

So what is this all going to be?

 

Here's the site plan for the resort, from their website:

 

 

Note the big water feature and what look like canals branching off from it.  That is all going to be man-made.

 

The site plan also shows that Davy Crockett Ranch is not part of the deal.

 

It also tells me that someday, that reception outpost is not going to be part of the resort. 

 

I think some of what we saw going on around the Davy Village area is construction to prepare a new entry area.  Guests will check in at a building someplace in the village, and then head out to their cabins.

 

I think that Disney built Davy Crockett Ranch a couple of miles from the parks so that it could be in an undeveloped area.  Soon, it's going to have a huge resort surrounding it.

 

I really wonder about the future of the resort as a result.

 

TCD

[The Troll 67]

Fascinating. Just a few questions/observations.

 

- Just from looking at your photos, the Crockett Ranch, to me, doesn't feel like it's really set off in the woods someplace. It feels more like it's surrounded by a bunch of "backstage" Castmembers Only areas that are shielded by a few trees here and there. Did you get that impression, too? Or am I misinterpreting the photos?

- I am sure everyone here has seen the abandoned Soviet space shuttle photos. I get the same sort of feel looking at the Crockett Ranch photos, except the ranch is still (sort of) in operation. It seems like they had a much bigger plan/vision that didn't pan out and proved too expensive, so those pieces just got abandoned. Disney likes to do that for some odd reason. You'd think, "Tear it down or maintain it, but don't just pretend it's not there." But, hey, they're the ones making the money, not me.

 

- The Crockett Settlement area, or whatever it's called, seems too big to be supported by eight cabin loops. But maybe I'm wrong. I would guess they have a problem keeping that place rented.

 

- Hey, how would you like to be one of those Soviet space shuttle engineers watching Boris Yeltsin capturing the Russian White House on Soviet TV? I would imagine you'd be thinking, "Well, I guess I need to find a new job!"? Then again, how did people find new jobs in the Soviet Union?

 

- What does that last question have anything to do with this trip report?

- Maybe TCD mentioned it earlier and I missed it, but how do Disney attractions work in France? I mean, the pirates sing the "Pirates Life for Me" song in English, right? And the signing busts in the HM, they sing "Grim Grinning Ghosts" in English, right? And how weird is that? How would we like it if some French company opened up a park here in, say, Kansas, and all the attractions were in French? I wouldn't like that too much. I would demand my money back. And rip down a French flag on my way out.

 

- Disney LOVES the whole frontier/pioneer/Old West theming thing. But do the French people appreciate it? I mean, the Old West is entrenched in the American psyche, especially in the hearts and minds of dudes my age who grew up watching reruns of Gunsmoke and The Lone Ranger...but the French? Do they really have any emotional attachment to the Old West? Do they feel its charm? Do they even know what it is?

 

- When did Disney bring the cheap single-wide trailers covered with faux wood logs to the Fort? Was it around the same time that the Crockett Ranch was constructed?

[DaveInTN 3,247]

- Disney LOVES the whole frontier/pioneer/Old West theming thing. But do the French people appreciate it? 

 

If anything, they are probably still ticked that Napoleon sold a big chunk of the US west to us for around 40 cents/acre in 2015 dollars.  Maybe that's why they don't seem to care for the Davy Crockett Ranch....it reminds them of what could have been.  

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Fascinating. Just a few questions/observations.

 

- Just from looking at your photos, the Crockett Ranch, to me, doesn't feel like it's really set off in the woods someplace. It feels more like it's surrounded by a bunch of "backstage" Castmembers Only areas that are shielded by a few trees here and there. Did you get that impression, too? Or am I misinterpreting the photos?

You're right. Plus, there's a big parking lot there for guests to use to drive to and park. It had all of the atmosphere of the overflow lot at the Fort.

 

- I am sure everyone here has seen the abandoned Soviet space shuttle photos. I get the same sort of feel looking at the Crockett Ranch photos, except the ranch is still (sort of) in operation. It seems like they had a much bigger plan/vision that didn't pan out and proved too expensive, so those pieces just got abandoned. Disney likes to do that for some odd reason. You'd think, "Tear it down or maintain it, but don't just pretend it's not there." But, hey, they're the ones making the money, not me.

Right again. I came away with the impression that they had big plans for the place, and that all that got built was phase one. And then they started shrinking the amenities that were part of Phase one. It's apparent that there won't be a phase two or any other phases. It's basically a mobile home park now.

 

- The Crockett Settlement area, or whatever it's called, seems too big to be supported by eight cabin loops. But maybe I'm wrong. I would guess they have a problem keeping that place rented.

Agreed. The pool is bigger than the pool at Fort Wilderness, but the place has half of the guest accommodations of the Fort. As I said above, the place seems like it was laid out to leave room for future expansion, but that never happened.

 

- Hey, how would you like to be one of those Soviet space shuttle engineers watching Boris Yeltsin capturing the Russian White House on Soviet TV? I would imagine you'd be thinking, "Well, I guess I need to find a new job!"? Then again, how did people find new jobs in the Soviet Union?

You are an interesting man.

 

- Maybe TCD mentioned it earlier and I missed it, but how do Disney attractions work in France? I mean, the pirates sing the "Pirates Life for Me" song in English, right? And the signing busts in the HM, they sing "Grim Grinning Ghosts" in English, right? And how weird is that? How would we like it if some French company opened up a park here in, say, Kansas, and all the attractions were in French? I wouldn't like that too much. I would demand my money back. And rip down a French flag on my way out.

Good point. In the course of researching Disneyland Paris since my return, I found that in the original version of Phantom Manor (their HM), there was an introduction recorded in English by Vincent Price. Apparently, all of that English didn't set well with the original French guests, so it was dumped, and now there is a French introduction, but the rest of the narration and music is in English. It doesn't make any sense. My impression was that most of the guests in the parks were not even French. the French probably do hate the place.

 

- Disney LOVES the whole frontier/pioneer/Old West theming thing. But do the French people appreciate it? I mean, the Old West is entrenched in the American psyche, especially in the hearts and minds of dudes my age who grew up watching reruns of Gunsmoke and The Lone Ranger...but the French? Do they really have any emotional attachment to the Old West? Do they feel its charm? Do they even know what it is?

I thought I heard somewhere that French people love old western things. That could have been on a site discussing why Disney built Frontierland the way they did. I'm not sure if it's true, though.

 

- When did Disney bring the cheap single-wide trailers covered with faux wood logs to the Fort? Was it around the same time that the Crockett Ranch was constructed?

The current cabins in Fort Wilderness started to be installed in the late 90's, so 8-9 years after the trailers at Davy Crockett Ranch. The FW cabins are far superior.

 

 

If anything, they are probably still ticked that Napoleon sold a big chunk of the US west to us for around 40 cents/acre in 2015 dollars.  Maybe that's why they don't seem to care for the Davy Crockett Ranch....it reminds them of what could have been.

Funny you should mention the Louisiana Purchase. I would have thought the same way you did, but then I saw a big old statue of Thomas Jefferson in Paris (photo will be posted at the appropriate time). So maybe they're happy that we took that land off their hands?

TCD

[parrothead7368 aka Norm 101]

Funny you should mention the Louisiana Purchase. I would have thought the same way you did, but then I saw a big old statue of Thomas Jefferson in Paris (photo will be posted at the appropriate time). So maybe they're happy that we took that land off their hands?

TCD

 

Jefferson spent 5 years in Paris for a diplomatic assignment and always loved Europe. His classical education probably helped him and his relationship with the French people. He learned alot of things form the people of France and brought them back to the US. He also was friends with many artists. He embraced Paris and France and they obviously embraced him.

 

Best Regards,

Norm

[dvccamper 32]

Usually when I read trip reports it makes me want to visit and experience what the person wrote about. In fact, that was how we decided to visit the Disney resort in Hilton Head, and we loved it.

I can honestly say your report has done the exact opposite. But that's a good thing. I think if we had saved and planned and ended up at Davy Crockett ranch for our family vacation, we would have been thoroughly depressed.

[jmaul 65]

Norm needs to stay out of Holiday Inn Express' and off Google....

[Dalspot ... Karen 21]

Might be a Mulberry tree - as that's how they are pruned.

 

These trees are interesting.  They look like rotten old stumps, but new shoots are sprouting from them.  I wonder why they are here and why the stumps were left when the trees were cut down:

 

 

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Jefferson spent 5 years in Paris for a diplomatic assignment and always loved Europe. His classical education probably helped him and his relationship with the French people. He learned alot of things form the people of France and brought them back to the US. He also was friends with many artists. He embraced Paris and France and they obviously embraced him.

 

Best Regards,

Norm

 

Very good.  The statue is placed where Jefferson is facing a building that he was said to be fond of, and which inspired his design of Monticello.  The statue is a new addition to Paris, having just been erected in 2006.

 

Usually when I read trip reports it makes me want to visit and experience what the person wrote about. In fact, that was how we decided to visit the Disney resort in Hilton Head, and we loved it.

I can honestly say your report has done the exact opposite. But that's a good thing. I think if we had saved and planned and ended up at Davy Crockett ranch for our family vacation, we would have been thoroughly depressed.

 

I am glad to be of service.  I really, really wanted to go to Davy Crockett Ranch, and spent more to visit there than for any of our other accommodations on this trip.  I wanted to like it.  But, I came away very disappointed.

 

Norm needs to stay out of Holiday Inn Express' and off Google....

 

LOL.

 

Don't forget, he himself calls in Norm Nonsense.

 

TCD

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Here's a couple of more Davy Crockett Ranch photos to look at and think about before we move on.

 

Earlier in this report, someone posted some information about how there used to be actual campsites at this place when it first opened.  Which is why its original name was Camp Davy Crockett.

 

I wondered where the campsites were.

 

Then I remembered something.

 

On the 200 loop, about halfway around, there was a big building that they were using as a maintenance building.  There were CM's who would come and go from there on golf carts.  I only drove by there in the daylight a couple of times during our visit, and didn't think to take a photo.

 

But, here it is on Google Earth:

 

 

Looking at Google Earth, I saw a similar building in the middle of the 100 loop:

 

 

None of the other loops had buildings like that.

 

I now think that these were originally comfort stations for campers for those two loops.  They must have been repurposed after they stopped offering campsites and changed the name.  Like the old comfort station that sits in the middle of the 2100 loop at the Fort.

 

TCD

[parrothead7368 aka Norm 101]

Actually I knew that one.

I like history, more Civil War, but Revolutionary times are interesting as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DaveInTN 3,247]

Jefferson spent 5 years in Paris for a diplomatic assignment and always loved Europe. His classical education probably helped him and his relationship with the French people. He learned alot of things form the people of France and brought them back to the US. He also was friends with many artists. He embraced Paris and France and they obviously embraced him.

 

Best Regards,

Norm

 

Jefferson embraced a lot of French women, as well.  Although not as many as old Ben Franklin.  

[parrothead7368 aka Norm 101]

Jefferson embraced a lot of French women, as well.  Although not as many as old Ben Franklin.  

 

And John Adams was the perfect gentleman

 

Best Regards,

Norm

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

Norm, you need to reconsider the term from a branding standpoint. I suggest "Complete NormsenseTM"

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

Thanks to TCD for this whole trip-report/cautionary-tale thing. I would be livid — literally epic, legendary stuff that French bards would sing of for generations — if I had paid that much and received that little. If DLP was an hour from home and cost half as much I wouldn't go. I'll never complain about the crappy Mac&Cheese at Trail's End again!

[The Troll 67]

Thanks to TCD for this whole trip-report/cautionary-tale thing. I would be livid — literally epic, legendary stuff that French bards would sing of for generations — if I had paid that much and received that little. If DLP was an hour from home and cost half as much I wouldn't go. I'll never complain about the crappy Mac&Cheese at Trail's End again!

 

Excellent point, Shannon.

 

I have to think a lot of this is simply tied to the living and income standards of Europe.

According to the OECD better living index, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita in France is USD 28,799 a year. In Germany it's USD 31,252. In the US? It's USD 41,355.

 

Americans simply have more disposable income that Europeans.

 

God bless America. Actually, wait -- he evidently already has. So, thank you, God. I give thanks every day that I was born in Miami and not in Marseille...or worse.

[Beckers 1,136]

If I ever end up in France (which I don't ever see happening) I would still go to DLP but I would never plan a trip just to go there. If I am ever going abroad for a Disney park, it's going to be to Tokyo. Considering I'm not a fan of flying, that will probably never happen.

[Tri-Circle-D 2,059]

Actually I knew that one.

I like history, more Civil War, but Revolutionary times are interesting as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

How are you with the French Revolution?  We'll have some things to discuss about that in not too long.

 

Jefferson embraced a lot of French women, as well.  Although not as many as old Ben Franklin.  

 

LOL.  Is that so?  That old bald guy had game?  His face wasn't even on the $100 bill yet.

 

And John Adams was the perfect gentleman

 

Best Regards,

Norm

 

And where did that get him?  He's not on any money.

 

Norm, you need to reconsider the term from a branding standpoint. I suggest "Complete NormsenseTM"

 

Very funny.

 

And we have two Norms posting on this thread.

 

Thanks to TCD for this whole trip-report/cautionary-tale thing. I would be livid — literally epic, legendary stuff that French bards would sing of for generations — if I had paid that much and received that little. If DLP was an hour from home and cost half as much I wouldn't go. I'll never complain about the crappy Mac&Cheese at Trail's End again!

 

I will be getting to the "was it worth it" discussion soon.  When you look at how the price breaks down you may be surprised.

 

Your comment about this trip giving me a new perspective about WDW is accurate.  I definitely see WDW in a new light now. 

 

Excellent point, Shannon.

 

I have to think a lot of this is simply tied to the living and income standards of Europe.

According to the OECD better living index, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita in France is USD 28,799 a year. In Germany it's USD 31,252. In the US? It's USD 41,355.

 

Americans simply have more disposable income that Europeans.

 

God bless America. Actually, wait -- he evidently already has. So, thank you, God. I give thanks every day that I was born in Miami and not in Marseille...or worse.

 

I didn't realize that the disposable income of Americans was that much higher than Europeans.  And, with the exchange rate becoming more favorable, that explains a lot of the unhappiness we saw.

 

If I ever end up in France (which I don't ever see happening) I would still go to DLP but I would never plan a trip just to go there. If I am ever going abroad for a Disney park, it's going to be to Tokyo. Considering I'm not a fan of flying, that will probably never happen.

 

The Tokyo Disney parks do look a lot more interesting than DLP.  As I mentioned earlier, if I had it all to do over again, I would still go to DLP and to Davy Crockett Ranch.  And, I will go back to both places if the opportunity ever arises again.

 

TCD

[Santa ... Shannon 160]

Norm, you need to reconsider the term from a branding standpoint. I suggest "Complete NormsenseTM"

 

Very funny.

 

And we have two Norms posting on this thread.

Exactly my point, if he doesn't start building and protecting his brand that other Norm might swoop in and start using his best stuff! Businesses are built on products, empires are built on brands, and legacies upon the success or ruination of those brands... leave a legacy (and no, I don't mean get your face engraved on a "tombstone" in front of DJD at Epcot!)

(and no, this is not a drunk-post! It's 9am on a Weds for crying out loud!)

LOL