Let's talk gas mileage and what you have...

[mouseketab.....Carol 1,261]

Some fictional numbers

 

Your vehicle - GCWR - 22,000 lbs (That is everything, the weight of the vehicle, what is in the vehicle combined with what is towed behind it)

Your vehicle -GVWR - 16,000 lbs (That has to do with ONLY your vehicle, the weight of the vehicle, plus what is in the vehicle, plus the hitch weight of what you are towing).

Your trailer - Dry shipped weight 6590

Your trailer - Hitch weight 690

Tour trailer - Gross weight 10,000

 

So with the vehicle above, the most the vehicle, passengers, cargo, and fuel can weigh and still safely tow that trailer is 11310 (22,000 lbs - 10,000-690). For every pound you add to the vehicle, another pound has to be subtracted from the trailer.

 

On the other hand, if you completely load up the vehicle to it's maximum 16,000 lbs, then the heaviest trailer you can tow is 6,000 lbs

[parrothead7368 aka Norm 101]

Only be concerned about the Gross vehicle weight of the trailer right now, which in your case would be 8000#. The dry weight is 6590 and cargo capacity is 1410. 6590+1410=8000.

Now the dry weight sometimes includes the propane tanks on the hitch, it will say this on the yellow label on the camper.

Personally, with the length of the trailer and weight, and wheelbase of Armada I would be wary of pulling it. Just my opinion.

 

Best Regards,

Norm

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Thanks all...

[Daverene 14]

Or you can go and look at the outher towing forums. They break it down like this

1500 f150. You can tow a pop up

2500 f250 pop up with stuff in it

3500 f350 up to 7000 pounds

Semi what ever you want

That's how it goes

[keith_h 420]

Okay... so if the TT is 6590# and the hitch is 690#, then the dry weight of the TT is 7280.....is that right?   I start there and then add weight for cargo and passengers. ??

 

No the trailer weight is 6590 lbs.

 

The hitch weight is the amount of weight the trailer adds to the TV hitch and therefore the TV. It is primarily used to determine your hitch and receiver requirements but is also used when calculating whether the GVWR is being exceeded as it is added to the cargo in the TV.

 

I like to start with the GCVWR. From this I subtract the TV curb weight. The result is how much capacity I have for passengers, cargo and towing. From here I subtract TV passengers and cargo (GVWR). What's left is how much I have available for the trailer and it's cargo.

 

As an example my Explorer has a GCVWR of 10,000 lbs. The curb weight is 4060 (weight of vehicle, all fluids and fuel). This gives me a maximum of 5940 lbs for passengers, cargo and trailer. Passenger weight, hitch head and cargo for us is around 500 lbs so that leaves us 5440 lbs for the trailer.

 

To see if the hitch weight is to much for the vehicle I take the GVWR from the manufacturer. I add the curb weight, hitch head weight, passengers, cargo and hitch weight. For me the GVWR comes in at 4900 lbs. My vehicle has a max of 5200 lbs so I am under this value. If the hitch weight increases or me for than matter I would have to recalculate to see if I am still under the maximums.

 

Note: There is some discrepancy on the curb weights for my car depending upon which Ford document I look at. I used the larger number number as I have not bothered to weigh it myself. Needless to say if my SUV is less then my towing capacity will increase and I will have more headroom to GVWR.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Okay...so the GCWR for our vehicle is 14,700 lbs and the curb weight 5393 lbs.  People and cargo would probably be 500 lbs for us as well, which would bring the total (round up) to 5900 lbs for us and the truck.  That leaves 8800 lbs or 7040 lbs (80%) for trailer and cargo.

 

But I know that our wheelbase is only 123" (compared to Suburban's 130" ) which I've been told makes a difference.... but I'm not really sure why.  My first thought is that the longer truck provides more stability when towing something (especially something that's not too small). 

[parrothead7368 aka Norm 101]

.

 

But I know that our wheelbase is only 123" (compared to Suburban's 130" ) which I've been told makes a difference.... but I'm not really sure why.  My first thought is that the longer truck provides more stability when towing something (especially something that's not too small). 

 

 

 

That is basically the reason, more stable. My comment about being wary on towing was to just give you something else to think about before purchasing.

We bought our 25 foot hybrid and had planned on towing it with our Grand Cherokee which it was capable of doing according to the numbers for a year and than buying a Suburban or Yukon XL, but after one trip I just didn't feel safe towing it. We ended up buying the Yukon XL quicker than we planned and it is much more comfortable driving stability wise. We used to feel the sway with the Jeep when a truck passed, now barely notice. Just wanted to put it out there, sorry if I upset you in any way, didn't mean to.

 

Best Regards,

Norm

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

That is basically the reason, more stable. My comment about being wary on towing was to just give you something else to think about before purchasing.

We bought our 25 foot hybrid and had planned on towing it with our Grand Cherokee which it was capable of doing according to the numbers for a year and than buying a Suburban or Yukon XL, but after one trip I just didn't feel safe towing it. We ended up buying the Yukon XL quicker than we planned and it is much more comfortable driving stability wise. We used to feel the sway with the Jeep when a truck passed, now barely notice. Just wanted to put it out there, sorry if I upset you in any way, didn't mean to.

 

Best Regards,

Norm

 

Oh goodness no... you didn't upset me at all.  I'm just trying to figure it all out.  I wish there was a "plug-n-play" of sorts for trucks and trailers... in other words, if you can hitch (plug-it-in) to your truck, then you're good; if you can't, then it's too big for you.  That would make it easy for my simple mind :)

 

We have a 24" hybrid with a WDH and anti-sway bar on our Armada and it's fine.  I'm okay/comfortable with going bigger...question is, how much bigger.  We don't want to get more that what we're comfortable pulling with the truck as we'd rather not buy a different one.

 

Oh well, not in a huge rush...just trying to be prepared when we do decide to make a change :)   Thanks for the help!

[PGHFiend 140]

Okay...so the GCWR for our vehicle is 14,700 lbs and the curb weight 5393 lbs.  People and cargo would probably be 500 lbs for us as well, which would bring the total (round up) to 5900 lbs for us and the truck.  That leaves 8800 lbs or 7040 lbs (80%) for trailer and cargo.

 

But I know that our wheelbase is only 123" (compared to Suburban's 130" ) which I've been told makes a difference.... but I'm not really sure why.  My first thought is that the longer truck provides more stability when towing something (especially something that's not too small). 

 

And.... If you really want to blow your mind, start subtracting the GVW of the trailer from the Max axle capacity and you will see that the engineers who designed these things actually count on the weight that your vehicle will actually carry to make everything legal.

As an example, my last 5th wheel had twin 3500Lb. axles, BUT the max load of the trailer was 8400 lbs- 1500 lbs OVER Weight of the installed axles!  So they count on the trailer putting 20% of its weight (in this case 7000 X 20% = 1400, 1400+7000 = 8400GVWR) on the truck. 

Now, imagine that set of axles will spend every minute of their lives at MAXIMUM CAPACITY! IMHO- Totally unacceptable, proving my point the RV Industry is insane and simply out to maximize profit.  It would have cost maybe a couple of hundred more bucks to upgrade that campers wheels and tires to ensure a safer towing experience.

 

BTW- A 5th wheel will place as much as 20% of its weight into the bed of the truck as compared to a travel trailers 10%.  

 

PS:  I repair campers on the side, and have done several flips including 5th wheels and a Class C and can tell you that you NEED to check your campers roof periodically to check for leaks.  These things are put together with screws and glue, and in most cases, can be completely taken apart with a putty knife and a Phillips screwdriver. 

 

PPS: Do yourself a favor and only buy a camper with an Aluminum frame.  In case it ever does leak, you will be sure that the structure has not been compromised by rotting wood.

 

PPPS: In the RV industry you should START the negotiations on a new RV at 70 Percent of the MSRP. 

 

Hope this helps!!!

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Oh...BTW Norm, I had heard about wheelbase before...just wasn't quite sure how it all came into play as many I've spoken to LOVE pulling with their suburban, but that wheelbase is only 7" longer and that seems like such a small difference to me, but it must be enough of one.

[PGHFiend 140]

Okay...so the GCWR for our vehicle is 14,700 lbs and the curb weight 5393 lbs.  People and cargo would probably be 500 lbs for us as well, which would bring the total (round up) to 5900 lbs for us and the truck.  That leaves 8800 lbs or 7040 lbs (80%) for trailer and cargo.

 

But I know that our wheelbase is only 123" (compared to Suburban's 130" ) which I've been told makes a difference.... but I'm not really sure why.  My first thought is that the longer truck provides more stability when towing something (especially something that's not too small). 

 

And.... If you really want to blow your mind, start subtracting the GVW of the trailer from the Max axle capacity and you will see that the engineers who designed these things actually count on the weight that your vehicle will actually carry to make everything legal.

As an example, my last 5th wheel had twin 3500Lb. axles, BUT the max load of the trailer was 8400 lbs- 1500 lbs OVER Weight of the installed axles!  So they count on the trailer putting 20% of its weight (in this case 7000 X 20% = 1400, 1400+7000 = 8400GVWR) on the truck. 

Now, imagine that set of axles will spend every minute of their lives at MAXIMUM CAPACITY! IMHO- Totally unacceptable, proving my point the RV Industry is insane and simply out to maximize profit.  It would have cost maybe a couple of hundred more bucks to upgrade that campers wheels and tires to ensure a safer towing experience.

 

BTW- A 5th wheel will place as much as 20% of its weight into the bed of the truck as compared to a travel trailers 10%.  

 

PS:  I repair campers on the side, and have done several flips including 5th wheels and a Class C and can tell you that you NEED to check your campers roof periodically to check for leaks.  These things are put together with screws and glue, and in most cases, can be completely taken apart with a putty knife and a Phillips screwdriver. 

 

PPS: Do yourself a favor and only buy a camper with an Aluminum frame.  In case it ever does leak, you will be sure that the structure has not been compromised by rotting wood.

 

PPPS: In the RV industry you should START the negotiations on a new RV at 70 Percent of the MSRP. 

 

Hope this helps!!!

[keith_h 420]

Okay...so the GCWR for our vehicle is 14,700 lbs and the curb weight 5393 lbs.  People and cargo would probably be 500 lbs for us as well, which would bring the total (round up) to 5900 lbs for us and the truck.  That leaves 8800 lbs or 7040 lbs (80%) for trailer and cargo.

 

But I know that our wheelbase is only 123" (compared to Suburban's 130" ) which I've been told makes a difference.... but I'm not really sure why.  My first thought is that the longer truck provides more stability when towing something (especially something that's not too small). 

 

Sounds about right. My gut feeling is the trailer you list in your original post will come in closer 7500 lbs once all is said and done and your hitch weight closer to 800-850. So you still need to determine if the 5393 lbs + 500 lbs + 850 < GVWR for the vehicle. If it is you should be ok weight wise as the numbers go.

 

You are correct on your wheelbase thoughts. The longer the wheel base of the TV the more stable you should should be. How good of a weight distribution hitch you have and how well it is set up goes a long way towards stability as is adequate anti-sway control. Our Explorer's wheelbase is 113" and we pull an 18 ft trailer. I'm not sure I would go much longer that 20 ft with it. The Equal-i-zer hitch handles the trailer well but I feel we are the the limits of what the Explorer will handle safely.

 

I think you have a good idea of what you and your vehicle are capable of which is most of the battle. Just remember that many an RV salesman will tell you your vehicle is capable when it might not be so always run the numbers yourself.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Sounds about right. My gut feeling is the trailer you list in your original post will come in closer 7500 lbs once all is said and done and your hitch weight closer to 800-850. So you still need to determine if the 5393 lbs + 500 lbs + 850 < GVWR for the vehicle. If it is you should be ok weight wise as the numbers go.

 

You are correct on your wheelbase thoughts. The longer the wheel base of the TV the more stable you should should be. How good of a weight distribution hitch you have and how well it is set up goes a long way towards stability as is adequate anti-sway control. Our Explorer's wheelbase is 113" and we pull an 18 ft trailer. I'm not sure I would go much longer that 20 ft with it. The Equal-i-zer hitch handles the trailer well but I feel we are the the limits of what the Explorer will handle safely.

 

I think you have a good idea of what you and your vehicle are capable of which is most of the battle. Just remember that many an RV salesman will tell you your vehicle is capable when it might not be so always run the numbers yourself.

 

Thanks.  Yes... the sales people will definitely tell you just about anything... well, if they know anything (at all) I should say.  We're always amazed at how little some of these "professionals" know about their product 

[LONE-STAR 370]

Or you can go and look at the outher towing forums. They break it down like this

1500 f150. You can tow a pop up

2500 f250 pop up with stuff in it

3500 f350 up to 7000 pounds

Semi what ever you want

That's how it goes

If you don't want any trouble you nailed it.

[Helmsey......Todd 134]

Thanks.  Yes... the sales people will definitely tell you just about anything... well, if they know anything (at all) I should say.  We're always amazed at how little some of these "professionals" know about their product 

 

They will tell you anything to get your money..

 

 

. So you still need to determine if the 5393 lbs + 500 lbs + 850 < GVWR for the vehicle. If it is you should be ok weight wise as the numbers go.

 

 

 

It appears that the GVWR of their Armada is 7000lbs, so as you mentioned as long as Car, people, people's stuff, and hitch  weigh less than 7000 you should be good.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Tongue weight of our truck is 910 lbs... am I suppose to compare this number with the "hitch" number on the RV brochures?

[ependydad...Doug 176]

Yes. But know that the "dry hitch" weight will never occur in real life. You need to expect it to increase as you load up the camper. There are tools to help you estimate it.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

Yes. But know that the "dry hitch" weight will never occur in real life. You need to expect it to increase as you load up the camper. There are tools to help you estimate it.

 

Thanks... mercy this stuff gives me a headache.  We're planning to stay with our current tow vehicle for another 3 years but when we're ready for another, we're just gonna bite the bullet a stinkin' huge truck.

[ependydad...Doug 176]

Yes. But know that the "dry hitch" weight will never occur in real life. You need to expect it to increase as you load up the camper. There are tools to help you estimate it.

 

Thanks... mercy this stuff gives me a headache.  We're planning to stay with our current tow vehicle for another 3 years but when we're ready for another, we're just gonna bite the bullet a stinkin' huge truck.

Ha! That's one way around it. But I will say my wife and I both *L.O.V.E.* our stinkin' huge truck (except for after school pickups- that's literally the only regular hassle when we need to use it for that!).

[LONE-STAR 370]

Thanks... mercy this stuff gives me a headache.  We're planning to stay with our current tow vehicle for another 3 years but when we're ready for another, we're just gonna bite the bullet a stinkin' huge truck.

I love my f-350. Hauls groceries just as good as trailers.

[keith_h 420]

... we're just gonna bite the bullet a stinkin' huge truck.

 

That's our plan. Then a few years after the truck a somewhat larger trailer.

[LONE-STAR 370]

That's our plan. Then a few years after the truck a somewhat larger trailer.

When it comes to trailers bigger is not always better. Some times I miss our small camper we started with.

[ependydad...Doug 176]

That's our plan. Then a few years after the truck a somewhat larger trailer.

When it comes to trailers bigger is not always better. Some times I miss our small camper we started with.

I like our huge camper most of the time, but that's mostly because we don't really camp. We're more of travelers.

I would like a small trailer just for *camping*. I actually designed one, just have to figure out how to build it/have it built. Lots of sleeping quarters but still pretty functional with all of the amenities of a regular camper.

[twiceblessed....nacole 433]

When it comes to trailers bigger is not always better. Some times I miss our small camper we started with.

 

I think that would be me, if we went too large.  We currently have a hybrid which actually fits us (youngest doesn't have his own "bed" but we can convert one) however... the tent ends have always made me a little nervous and the set up/tear down for the entire thing is a bit of a hassle.  We're looking at a "medium" size trailer that has a lot of "power" (power awning, tongue, stabilizers, etc). Those items, along with the fact that I don't have to pop out the beds, blow up the mattresses and then make the beds... make set up/tear down sound a lot less time intensive.   Plus, we're hoping that if we had some cold/wet weather at night...that a little larger TT would allow us to watch TV inside, while the kids are sleeping.

[keith_h 420]

When it comes to trailers bigger is not always better. Some times I miss our small camper we started with.

 

We aren't planning to go to much bigger. Anything larger than what we have now would exceed the towing capacity of the Explorer so the need for a new TV before new TT. Our current trailer's box is about 15 ft long and 7 ft wide. We use the trailer for camping but it has also become our hotel room when we travel. While we like it a lot we would like a bit more room in the main living area and a larger bathroom. To this end we have seen some units with 17 ft boxes and kitchen slides which would allow one of us to pass while the other is cooking or washing dishes without having to dance.