Children with autism

[DaveInTN 3,247]

Dave, I've heard of the senory processing disorder before.  From what I've heard some parents suspect autism at first until they receive the proper testing.  What kinds of issues does this disorder cause..if you don't mind my asking?

For the most part, her symptoms now days are mostly auditory.  Loud noises and other sounds really get to her.  She's extremely sensitive.  There are other symptoms which may or may not be related...like extreme irritability!  :rofl:  Of course, that could just be her personality. 

When she was younger, say up through age 5, she has some pretty serious issues with sensitivity to touch.  Strange things like cotton towels would freak her out.  She DID NOT like being held, even as a baby.  She prefered to be fed strapped into a bouncer than held.  We got her both occupational and speach therapy starting at age 2, and it really helped over time.  Her current speach therapist really believes all of this is tied together, and possibly related to her birth which was very difficult.  We nearly lost her through lack of oxygen from the cord not only having a knot in it, but being around her neck.  She was in the NICU for a week.  But, like all parents with these issues, you never really know.  You just deal with things as best you can. 

[Cyberdeb 7]

My daughter has bipolar disorder.  Before she was diagnosed, I used to get upset that we would go camping and all she wanted to do was nap in the camper.  I finally figured out that if that was what she wanted to do on vacation, then why not?  After her diagnosis, we started doing less as far as commando raids on parks and activities that would overstimulate her.  More time at the camper, in the quiet, going for walks etc.  It sure made things a lot better for everybody.  Fortuneately, we live in a time where medicine has advanced as far as diagnosis and treatment.  She is now stable on her medications, has a job and can hold a conversation with adults.  While she cannot handle full time college, she did finish a psychology course at our local community college and got an A!!!!  That was a big accomplishment for her.  I gotta say, I probably wasn't the most patient or sensitive guy when it came to dealing with disabled people, which I am not proud of.  If anything good has come of Chris' disability, it is that that aspect of me has changed.  However, it has made me more aware that there is a lot of misunderstanding and fear in the real world when it comes to dealing with disabled people.  As terrible as a mental disorder is, and I can't imagine the struggle my daughter went through in life before she was treated, I can't imagine the difficulty in dealing with physical disabilities, or combinations of these, but I am trying to understand.

I have a kid with Bi-Polar too.  Mine is 25 and now working in the mental health field as a Youth Support Parnter.  I also have one with Scizophrenia.  It wasnt a picnic, but it taught me a hell of a lot about compassion and what is truly important in life. 

[Cyberdeb 7]

KFK,

I agree, it is absolutely necessary to get the help needed to give your children the best opportunity to grow, physically or mentally.  And you can't get the help unless you kow what is wrong, or what is needed.  I wouldn't call is "labeling".  I would call it "diagnosing".  As Judy would say, a wheelchair doesn't handicap a child; it give the child mobility.

I agree too.  But also have to add that people somtimes get too hung up on labels.  I would rather have a label that tells you what is going on rather than a label like "Crazy, stupid, brat, etc."

[Cyberdeb 7]

Oh what a life we all lead indeed.  LOL.  3 with ADHD!?  OH MY LAWD!!!  We resisted meds as well, until he (our 7 year old and otherwise typical son) had problems focusing at school, that is.  Funny, but we get notes home nearly every week saying that he needs to focus or "is having trouble staying focused" ... and yet he remains on the A/B honor roll.  If he could only stay focused he would be a genius!  :rofl:

Our 6 year old with Autism/ADHD is quite another matter.  He's sort of like TAZ on speed... all of the time....unless he is asleep....which is not usually all night....even with meds  :o    Unfortunately every ADHD med we tried only made him completely nuts so we gave up on that and focused on treating the behavioral issues that stem from the autism. (Sorry for the run on sentence.)  If anyone would like to share which meds and or strategies that have helped in these situations, I would be very glad to hear it.

You probably already do a lot of things that help without even realizing it.  When my kids were younger it was "Structure, Structure, Structure".  Not to the point of being rigid, but enough that they know what to expect.  My son was medicated for ADHD as a child.  We called it the "chill" pill.  Let me tell you it worked, but by the time he got home from school, it was too late inthe day for another dose, but too early for him to be so wound up.  What i used to do was give him a little bit of diet mountain dew.  The little bit of caffiene helped.  Just be careful not to use too much or it will have the opposite effect. 

[ftwildernessguy 778]

Dave, I've heard of the senory processing disorder before.  From what I've heard some parents suspect autism at first until they receive the proper testing.  What kinds of issues does this disorder cause..if you don't mind my asking?

For the most part, her symptoms now days are mostly auditory.  Loud noises and other sounds really get to her.  She's extremely sensitive.  There are other symptoms which may or may not be related...like extreme irritability!  :rofl:  Of course, that could just be her personality.  :o

When she was younger, say up through age 5, she has some pretty serious issues with sensitivity to touch.  Strange things like cotton towels would freak her out.  She DID NOT like being held, even as a baby.  She prefered to be fed strapped into a bouncer than held.  We got her both occupational and speach therapy starting at age 2, and it really helped over time.  Her current speach therapist really believes all of this is tied together, and possibly related to her birth which was very difficult.  We nearly lost her through lack of oxygen from the cord not only having a knot in it, but being around her neck.  She was in the NICU for a week.  But, like all parents with these issues, you never really know.  You just deal with things as best you can.

Interesting, Dave.  Christine was a c-section - cord wrapped around her neck.  Carol had also gone into premature labor about 1 month before - they think this is when the cord was around her neck and she was in fetal distress.  We also had difficulty distinguishing between irrational behavior and normal hormonal fluctuations associated with puberty.  What we thought were just emotional outbursts consistant with teenagers were really early psychotic episodes.

[ftwildernessguy 778]

My daughter has bipolar disorder.  Before she was diagnosed, I used to get upset that we would go camping and all she wanted to do was nap in the camper.  I finally figured out that if that was what she wanted to do on vacation, then why not?  After her diagnosis, we started doing less as far as commando raids on parks and activities that would overstimulate her.  More time at the camper, in the quiet, going for walks etc.  It sure made things a lot better for everybody.  Fortuneately, we live in a time where medicine has advanced as far as diagnosis and treatment.  She is now stable on her medications, has a job and can hold a conversation with adults.  While she cannot handle full time college, she did finish a psychology course at our local community college and got an A!!!!  That was a big accomplishment for her.  I gotta say, I probably wasn't the most patient or sensitive guy when it came to dealing with disabled people, which I am not proud of.  If anything good has come of Chris' disability, it is that that aspect of me has changed.  However, it has made me more aware that there is a lot of misunderstanding and fear in the real world when it comes to dealing with disabled people.  As terrible as a mental disorder is, and I can't imagine the struggle my daughter went through in life before she was treated, I can't imagine the difficulty in dealing with physical disabilities, or combinations of these, but I am trying to understand.

I have a kid with Bi-Polar too.  Mine is 25 and now working in the mental health field as a Youth Support Parnter.  I also have one with Scizophrenia.  It wasnt a picnic, but it taught me a hell of a lot about compassion and what is truly important in life.

If people take nothing else away from this discussion, I hope the younger parents will see some hope from mine and your experiences.  Christine just turned 26.  She is employed full time at a Veterinary Referral Hospital (I have noticed disabled kids tend to migrate toward animals), takes college courses part time, has a steady boyfriend whom she has been with for 3 years, and makes and keeps her own psychiatric and counselling appointments.  She also pays her own bills, manages her own bank accounts, recently purchased a new car and got the financing herself.  She does live at home, but mainly due to the expense of living alone, and has been actively preparing to find her own place.  If you knew what we went through 8 years ago, you would realize just how far she has gone.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

My daughter has bipolar disorder.  Before she was diagnosed, I used to get upset that we would go camping and all she wanted to do was nap in the camper.  I finally figured out that if that was what she wanted to do on vacation, then why not?  After her diagnosis, we started doing less as far as commando raids on parks and activities that would overstimulate her.  More time at the camper, in the quiet, going for walks etc.  It sure made things a lot better for everybody.  Fortuneately, we live in a time where medicine has advanced as far as diagnosis and treatment.  She is now stable on her medications, has a job and can hold a conversation with adults.  While she cannot handle full time college, she did finish a psychology course at our local community college and got an A!!!!  That was a big accomplishment for her.  I gotta say, I probably wasn't the most patient or sensitive guy when it came to dealing with disabled people, which I am not proud of.  If anything good has come of Chris' disability, it is that that aspect of me has changed.  However, it has made me more aware that there is a lot of misunderstanding and fear in the real world when it comes to dealing with disabled people.  As terrible as a mental disorder is, and I can't imagine the struggle my daughter went through in life before she was treated, I can't imagine the difficulty in dealing with physical disabilities, or combinations of these, but I am trying to understand.

I have a kid with Bi-Polar too.  Mine is 25 and now working in the mental health field as a Youth Support Parnter.  I also have one with Scizophrenia.  It wasnt a picnic, but it taught me a hell of a lot about compassion and what is truly important in life.

If people take nothing else away from this discussion, I hope the younger parents will see some hope from mine and your experiences.  Christine just turned 26.  She is employed full time at a Veterinary Referral Hospital (I have noticed disabled kids tend to migrate toward animals), takes college courses part time, has a steady boyfriend whom she has been with for 3 years, and makes and keeps her own psychiatric and counselling appointments.  She also pays her own bills, manages her own bank accounts, recently purchased a new car and got the financing herself.  She does live at home, but mainly due to the expense of living alone, and has been actively preparing to find her own place.  If you knew what we went through 8 years ago, you would realize just how far she has gone.

Believe me, this type of dialogue DOES help.  :)

And thank you for calling me "younger".  :)

[kampfirekim 260]

I agree Dave...just the discussion alone is helping me.  I feel encouraged and hopeful just knowing we're not alone.  Just like Jim we have been a little afraid of meds and have only done it when absolutely necessary.  We hit the jackpot with our oldest w/ADHD.  Adderall did the trick right out of the gate.  Only a minor dosage adjustment has been needed there. 

Incidently, I have a close relative who deals with phychotic issues, learning diabilities and physical impairments as well.  So my heart really goes out to you FWG and Cyberdeb..I understand all too well how difficult it must be for you.

With our youngest w/autism, we've really had a hard time finding the right meds, dosages etc.  All of the ADHD meds caused severe rages, like he was on fire from the inside out.  Most of that stuff was flushed.  Finally the doc put him on Risperidone which has helped but not as much as I would have hoped.  Maybe it's time for a bump up in dosage.  He also takes clonidine at night to help him fall asleep. Still he doesn't sleep soundly through the night.  Cyberdeb, you're right about the caffeine.  It has a calming effect on both of our boys.  Our youngest craved coffee from the time he tasted his first drop and will suck a cup dry if you leave it unattended.  :) 

I've recently heard of something called Calm Child.  Supposedly it is all natural and will settle down kids w/ADHD.  A friend of mine swears by it.  Have any of you heard of it?  Sorry this is so long.

[Lou... 3,118]

Looking at news story right now by a mom of an autistic child that says diet has had a noticeable affect. Her doctor agrees and says that a change in diet might help, not cure, 60% of the kids. Very interesting if true.

[kampfirekim 260]

Thanks MB.. the diet is quite a subject for debate. 

This is one of those things that some parents swear by and others say they saw very little to no change at all after years and $$$$$$  spent on it.  The gluten-free diet is very expensive, time consuming and difficult to implement and stick to for most families.  (Not to mention that most autistic kids are picky as all get out anyway.)    I have looked into it and talked to professionals and many other parents w/autistic kids and none were impressed with the results so we opted not to do it.  That's not to say it won't help someone else's child.  The general feeling among those I talked to was that the diet may be helping more with behavior stemming from food allergies/sensitivities than with autism itself.  Which I'm sure is still a welcome relief to those it does help.

[Cyberdeb 7]

My daughter has bipolar disorder.  Before she was diagnosed, I used to get upset that we would go camping and all she wanted to do was nap in the camper.  I finally figured out that if that was what she wanted to do on vacation, then why not?  After her diagnosis, we started doing less as far as commando raids on parks and activities that would overstimulate her.  More time at the camper, in the quiet, going for walks etc.  It sure made things a lot better for everybody.  Fortuneately, we live in a time where medicine has advanced as far as diagnosis and treatment.  She is now stable on her medications, has a job and can hold a conversation with adults.  While she cannot handle full time college, she did finish a psychology course at our local community college and got an A!!!!  That was a big accomplishment for her.  I gotta say, I probably wasn't the most patient or sensitive guy when it came to dealing with disabled people, which I am not proud of.  If anything good has come of Chris' disability, it is that that aspect of me has changed.  However, it has made me more aware that there is a lot of misunderstanding and fear in the real world when it comes to dealing with disabled people.  As terrible as a mental disorder is, and I can't imagine the struggle my daughter went through in life before she was treated, I can't imagine the difficulty in dealing with physical disabilities, or combinations of these, but I am trying to understand.

I have a kid with Bi-Polar too.  Mine is 25 and now working in the mental health field as a Youth Support Parnter.  I also have one with Scizophrenia.  It wasnt a picnic, but it taught me a hell of a lot about compassion and what is truly important in life.

If people take nothing else away from this discussion, I hope the younger parents will see some hope from mine and your experiences.  Christine just turned 26.  She is employed full time at a Veterinary Referral Hospital (I have noticed disabled kids tend to migrate toward animals), takes college courses part time, has a steady boyfriend whom she has been with for 3 years, and makes and keeps her own psychiatric and counselling appointments.  She also pays her own bills, manages her own bank accounts, recently purchased a new car and got the financing herself.  She does live at home, but mainly due to the expense of living alone, and has been actively preparing to find her own place.  If you knew what we went through 8 years ago, you would realize just how far she has gone.

I agree completely.  We were told the worst case scenerios for my oldest son, 29 with schizophrenia.  However he lives independently, got married last june and works full time at the same job for the last 6 years or so.  Has his own car as well.  He still gets support through the program that he is in and we help with managing his finances, but he is doing better than we were told he ever could.  My other son, 25 with bipolar  also lives independently and works with kids that have mental illness and for the most part at least until just a few weeks ago when he had a bad breakup from a 7 year relationship was doing very well without meds. That has changed but i think he will get through it.  . 

[Cyberdeb 7]

I havent heard of Calm Child.  My kids are adults now so i have been removed from that whole subject for a while but i can say that we tried the Feingold diet and that did nothing at all.  We also tried very strict dietary changes (cant remember what they were) while my oldest son was on an inpatient unit at the National Institute for menta Health in Bethesda MD and it also did nothing.  Not to say that it wont work for someone and more power to them if it does.  I dont think there are many parents out there that WANT to medicate their kids.  God knows i didnt.  With that said, good nutrituion sure helps everyone. 

[Otter Spotter aka Debbie 58]

Having never being able to have children, I have no advice or wisdom to add here.  I just wanted to say that it is very clear to me what wonderful people all of you are!!

"Normal" is a non-term, as far as I'm concerned.  What is normal for me, may not be normal for you.  It's all relevant.

My DH's nephew is "functionally" autistic.  He will never be able to drive or live on his own (separation anxiety on top of the autism), BUT, he is the only one of 3 brothers that has a college degree. He has an Associate Degree in Culinary Arts.  He works in the cafeteria of a local middle school where they allow him to make the "chef's special" of the day.  I'm told a lot of the students look forward to Ryan's meals, and he receives the full support of the staff.  He will give you the shirt off his back if he thought you needed it.  Same goes for my other nephew, NTSammy5's son.  He is and always has been one of the gentlest and most kind hearted kids I've known. 

[Keylime359 2]

Dave, I've heard of the senory processing disorder before.  From what I've heard some parents suspect autism at first until they receive the proper testing.  What kinds of issues does this disorder cause..if you don't mind my asking?

For the most part, her symptoms now days are mostly auditory.  Loud noises and other sounds really get to her.  She's extremely sensitive.  There are other symptoms which may or may not be related...like extreme irritability!  :popcorn:  Of course, that could just be her personality. 

When she was younger, say up through age 5, she has some pretty serious issues with sensitivity to touch.  Strange things like cotton towels would freak her out.  She DID NOT like being held, even as a baby.  She prefered to be fed strapped into a bouncer than held.  We got her both occupational and speach therapy starting at age 2, and it really helped over time.  Her current speach therapist really believes all of this is tied together, and possibly related to her birth which was very difficult.  We nearly lost her through lack of oxygen from the cord not only having a knot in it, but being around her neck.  She was in the NICU for a week.  But, like all parents with these issues, you never really know.  You just deal with things as best you can.

Dave,  Gabriella was the same way. Vacum cleaning sends her to the moon! She would not wear clothes for a year (not a fun year BTW) and the part of the sock by the toe where it stiches together forgetabout it! She spent a year pulling out her hair to the point she had bald spots. But, she loves deep tissue massage. She has learned to deal with it. For all that she has been through she was given the talent to art that is unreal! It is so reassuring to hear of other parents dealing with the same stuff we do. Its life and it could be worse,but I stand by the motto that wine makes me a better parent.

[kampfirekim 260]

Wow!  My 6 year old hates clothes too!  In fact, I have to let him go commando and wear cotton shorts around the house and at my mom's.  He doesn't do underwear AND shorts/pants.  Interesting that your daughter has artistic talent.  My son starting singing out of the blue back during the summer.  We are noticing that he is singing a lot lately.  I've heard him attempting to sing the tune of the Indianna Jones Theme (his bro is a big fan and sings it all the time).  LOL.  He also has started singing The Three Cabelleros.

I think this is going to be a wonderful forum.  It is comforting and encouraging to hear all of your stories and experiences.  Sometimes it feels like you're all alone when you have these issues.  It's good to be reminded that you're not.

By the way, I second that motto! ;-)

[kampfirekim 260]

Having never being able to have children, I have no advice or wisdom to add here.  I just wanted to say that it is very clear to me what wonderful people all of you are!!

"Normal" is a non-term, as far as I'm concerned.  What is normal for me, may not be normal for you.  It's all relevant.

My DH's nephew is "functionally" autistic.  He will never be able to drive or live on his own (separation anxiety on top of the autism), BUT, he is the only one of 3 brothers that has a college degree. He has an Associate Degree in Culinary Arts.  He works in the cafeteria of a local middle school where they allow him to make the "chef's special" of the day.  I'm told a lot of the students look forward to Ryan's meals, and he receives the full support of the staff.  He will give you the shirt off his back if he thought you needed it.  Same goes for my other nephew, NTSammy5's son.  He is and always has been one of the gentlest and most kind hearted kids I've known.

Sounds like you have enough experience with autism to have plenty of advice and wisdom to offer.  Sometimes just an encouraging word is enough.

Regarding your comment that normal is all relative....  I used to have a graphic in my siggie somewhere else that shall not be named... that said  "Different is the new normal."  I have one w/ADHD and the other with Autism/ADHD.  Normal???  What the heck is that?  LOL

[Momoffive aka Loretta 34]

Dave, I've heard of the senory processing disorder before.  From what I've heard some parents suspect autism at first until they receive the proper testing.  What kinds of issues does this disorder cause..if you don't mind my asking?

For the most part, her symptoms now days are mostly auditory.  Loud noises and other sounds really get to her.  She's extremely sensitive.  There are other symptoms which may or may not be related...like extreme irritability!  >:D  Of course, that could just be her personality. 

When she was younger, say up through age 5, she has some pretty serious issues with sensitivity to touch.  Strange things like cotton towels would freak her out.  She DID NOT like being held, even as a baby.  She prefered to be fed strapped into a bouncer than held.  We got her both occupational and speach therapy starting at age 2, and it really helped over time.  Her current speach therapist really believes all of this is tied together, and possibly related to her birth which was very difficult.  We nearly lost her through lack of oxygen from the cord not only having a knot in it, but being around her neck.  She was in the NICU for a week.  But, like all parents with these issues, you never really know.  You just deal with things as best you can.

Dave,  Gabriella was the same way. Vacum cleaning sends her to the moon! She would not wear clothes for a year (not a fun year BTW) and the part of the sock by the toe where it stiches together forgetabout it! She spent a year pulling out her hair to the point she had bald spots. But, she loves deep tissue massage. She has learned to deal with it. For all that she has been through she was given the talent to art that is unreal! It is so reassuring to hear of other parents dealing with the same stuff we do. Its life and it could be worse,but I stand by the motto that wine makes me a better parent.

    We have some of the same issues here.  McKenna is much better now with the socks but I would have to put on and take off the shoes a minimun of 3 times every time we put her shoes on.  Tags inside of her clothes another issue, food textures  UGH!  She was almost 3 1/2 before she could tolerate any food with texture.  Stage 2 baby food was all she could tolerate.

  Joshua, when he was younger, would start to scream when a movie would get near the end.  It took some time but we realized that it was the snow that would play at the end.  Enough to send him into a complete fit.  Our other son still deals with some sensory issues.  He still flaps quite a bit and jumps.  Last year we were able to finally get them to start using a sensory diet in school.  It's not food but alternative sensory input methods if he is having trouble during school.  If the teachers use these techniques he  does well, if not he is wound up by the time he gets home from school. 

  Now that they are older they have each learned to cope, but it has taken years of OT, ST  and PT with each of them.  I think the hardest thing we are dealing with now is peer acceptance.  They're wonderful kids but other kids quickly see the differences and tend to well keep the distance.  It breaks you heart.

[DaveInTN 3,247]

Y'all are freakin me out now with the discussion on sock seams and tags on clothes.  We've dealt with the same exact stuff!! 

I guess just when you think your kid has "abnormal" issues (I use the term lovingly)...you find out they are more a "typical" kid than you think!

In reality, aren't we all just one empty wine bottle away from being basket cases ourselves??  :D

[kampfirekim 260]

Kinda odd, but it's our "typical" son who can't stand tags in his clothes!  LOL.  The one with challenges just doesn't like clothes.  (insert streaking smiley here)  Here he comes...there he goes... AND HE AIN'T WEARING NO CLOTHES!  :banana:

Dave, it may be the empty wine bottles that keep us from going over the edge.  Allison said earlier that wine makes you a better parent.  :banana:

[Keylime359 2]

If our (wine) baskets are empty then we must be parents of the year!

When Gab would not wear clothes, she also walked on all fours much like an animal. That was always good for some uncomfortable silence when the inlaws came over. In laws would leave shortly after. Another reason to love her!

[kampfirekim 260]

OH MY GOODNESS!!!!  Now that just cracked me up big time!  LOL.  My Gabe likes to get naked and run really fast so you can't catch him.  All fours is just hilarious!!!! 

[Momoffive aka Loretta 34]

Y'all are freakin me out now with the discussion on sock seams and tags on clothes.  We've dealt with the same exact stuff!! 

I guess just when you think your kid has "abnormal" issues (I use the term lovingly)...you find out they are more a "typical" kid than you think!

In reality, aren't we all just one empty wine bottle away from being basket cases ourselves??  :banana:

My most recent "empty" bottle was a wonderful bottle of Salem Fork Blush!  YUM! 

The one I couldn't understand, she had such a hard time with the sock seem but would not wear open toe sandals. The sandal had to have a covered toe?  All pants have to have elastic in the back or adjustable waist because if there is a gap she can't wear it.  At least the tag thing seems to be more prevalent because a lot of children?s clothes have the stamped tag now. How about the, I?ll only eat things that are white or variations of white, or I won't eat anything with lumps, and if you make me.... I?ll puke!  Guess what I hate puke!

How much did you all give vs make them "do it anyway"?

[ftwildernessguy 778]

When Chris was little, she would change her outfits 20 times a day.  Sometimes she would wear multiple layers - dresses over pants and shirts, etc.

[Lou... 3,118]

This thread is giving me a new awareness of what it's like to have a child with Autism.

There is one post that spoke about their daughter reaching adulthood and doing pretty well. Is that typical or do most struggle in later life?

[kampfirekim 260]

This thread is giving me a new awareness of what it's like to have a child with Autism.

There is one post that spoke about their daughter reaching adulthood and doing pretty well. Is that typical or do most struggle in later life?

Thanks for your interest MagicBus!    That is one question that is tough to answer.  It all depends on where they are "on the spectrum" (how severe) and whether or not they receive the proper therapy and support early in life.  Autism in itself has so many variables from child to child.  I would wage a guess and say that many can go on to lead productive lives if they have the support they need early on.  Sadly, there are some who remain "locked up" in their own little world and never even become verbal.

Fortunately we hit it head on pretty early for our DS6.  He was in spec ed classes not long after he turned three and was receiving speech, ABT Applied Behavioral Therapy and occupational therapy at school.  After being officially and correctly diagnosed at age 4 ...and after a lot of paperwork and fighting it out... he qualified for Katie Beckett which is a Medicaid program that is on a NEEDS basis and not $$$.  He has been receiving in home occupational and speech therapy since that time.  He has just recently qualified for applied behavioral therapy as well.  Just need to get the paperwork done for that to begin.  Now with all that and his equestrian therapy starting back... looks like we'll be having therapy 4 days a week!  :dance: