Name the newest Fiend......dog

[GaDawgFan.....Kelly 799]

So glad he has you guys!!!

[Lou... 3,118]

So glad he has you guys!!!

 

Thanks Kelly, we are too.

[Beckers 1,136]

We had a cat who had seizures, scary as anything, she lived to 17.

I hope Buddy adjusts to his new little brother soon.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

So glad he has you guys!!!

 

Ditto!  Dobby is very lucky to have found you.  :heartsmiley:

 

My mom's last dog had occasional seizures from the time he was about 2 for his whole life.  They tested for disease, parasites, toxins...all the usual stuff... and never pinned down a cause.  He was a 90+ lb Lab/Pit mix and when he had an episode they would just watch him, and when he came out of it, get him outside quickly to pee.  The vet told them that as long as the frequency and intensity didn't increase significantly, he didn't recommend putting him on any meds. He lived to be nearly 11 (which is actually not bad for a dog his size) and passed due to other health issues.

 

I've known some people who had dogs that had seizures who started giving their dogs regular vitamin E, which they reported greatly reduced the frequency of the seizures (in some cases to years between). 

 

 

Vitamin E functions primarily as an antioxidant in protecting against damage to the cell membranes. Without Vitamin E, the cells of the body would be quite susceptible to damage, nerve cells in particular. Vitamin E interacts extensively with other antioxidant nutrients, especially Vitamin C and the mineral Selenium. Free radicals (unstable molecules) can be produced by exposure to some chemicals and by head trauma, and these can of course, cause seizures. And, seizures themselves generate more free radicals. These factors combined can possibly set up a cycle that leads to frequent seizures. As an antioxidant, Vitamin E is a scavenger of free radicals that help save cell membranes from harm. Additionally, in human patients, treatment with anticonvulsive drugs is associated with reduced Vitamin E levels. It is believed the Vitamin E deficiency can worsen seizure activity. Vitamin E may be effective in reducing seizure frequency because it helps to compensate for a drug-induced vitamin deficiency. Findings from some current studies in human epileptics indicate that adding Vitamin E to the diet of epileptics on AEDs may further reduce seizure frequency.

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/healthydiet.html#NutritionalDeficiencies

 

When I first started volunteering with rescue phenobarbitol was generally prescribed for dogs with frequent seizures, but since then I've heard that potassium bromide may be preferred over the long term because it doesn't damage the liver like phenobarbitol can.

 

 

Potassium Bromide (abbreviated as KBr) is often considered the first choice drug for any dogs with idiopathic epilepsy, and because it has no effect on the liver, is often chosen for dogs with liver damage.  Unlike Phenobarbital (Pb), which is processed by the liver, bromide works by replacing chloride throughout the body, is stored in body fluids and eliminated unchanged by the kidneys.  However, where Phenobarbital is effective almost immediately, Kbr can take up to three or four months to reach its full effect.  A loading dose may be necessary for dogs with frequent seizures or when Phenobarbital must be withdrawn rapidly because of liver disease.

 

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/potassium_bromide.htm

[Lou... 3,118]

Thanks Mo, good info to have if and when I need to see the Vet, hopefully I won't need to.

[Okieatheart 33]

Oh, golly gosh, Lou.  I so hate to hear that about Dobby.  But if I may put in my two cents here, we had an epileptic dog about 30 years ago, a poodle named Brandy.  When she had her first seizure, I ran her to the vet and he gave me the same advice that yours did.  However, Brandy had another seizure the next week, and another three days later.  

 

So, it sounds as if Dobby might have just experienced an incident, rather than having full blown epilepsy.  Several of my friends have had dogs throughout the years which have had incidental seizures and those dogs lived long lives.  One encouraging thing several vets told me was that unless the dog hits his head during a seizure, he will not die during one of those episodes.  And sure enough, Brandy died many years later of totally unrelated causes.

 

My thoughts are with darling Dobby (notice the alliteration?), and with you and Gail as you nervously watch over him.

[Lou... 3,118]

Oh, golly gosh, Lou.  I so hate to hear that about Dobby.  But if I may put in my two cents here, we had an epileptic dog about 30 years ago, a poodle named Brandy.  When she had her first seizure, I ran her to the vet and he gave me the same advice that yours did.  However, Brandy had another seizure the next week, and another three days later.  

 

So, it sounds as if Dobby might have just experienced an incident, rather than having full blown epilepsy.  Several of my friends have had dogs throughout the years which have had incidental seizures and those dogs lived long lives.  One encouraging thing several vets told me was that unless the dog hits his head during a seizure, he will not die during one of those episodes.  And sure enough, Brandy died many years later of totally unrelated causes.

 

My thoughts are with darling Dobby (notice the alliteration?), and with you and Gail as you nervously watch over him.

 

Thanks Jean Ann, and of course I'm hoping that you're right in that it was just an incidental seizure.

The first, and last, one that we observed was about 3 weeks ago. What we don't know is, has he had any where we weren't able to observe it?

Anyway, he's doing great, and is just the happiest well adjusted little guy. He's so much fun. It saddens us to know that he was roaming the streets alone, not that long ago.

 

I did pick up on your alliteration. I can picture everyone looking it up now.

[.....Gary 85]

How is Buddy doing?  Still moping?

[Lou... 3,118]

How is Buddy doing?  Still moping?

He was never moping, just would rather not have Dobby around. He hates him.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Our first BC Maggie hated Brady when we first brought him home.  Over time she learned to tolerate him (he followed her everywhere) and eventually taught him her rules of play - which included a good smackdown from time to time.  He adored her.  :)

 

When we brought Bz home at 9 weeks old we were concerned about Brady's reaction since he was not at all good with strange dogs back then.

 

I sat on the floor with sleeping puppy on one side of me and shoveled treats into Brady's face every time he looked at or sniffed her. He has not once snarked at her, much less tried to eat her.

 

She has taught him her rules of play - which includes a good smackdown from time to time (even though he outweighs her by more than 10 lbs)

 

He adores her.  :)

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

Sasha was annoyed that we brought Drake home in her old age.  He adored her, protected her, and stole her bed.  She dealt with it because the kids left her alone after he showed up.

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

Our first BC Maggie hated Brady when we first brought him home.  Over time she learned to tolerate him (he followed her everywhere) and eventually taught him her rules of play - which included a good smackdown from time to time.  He adored her.  :)

 

When we brought Bz home at 9 weeks old we were concerned about Brady's reaction since he was not at all good with strange dogs back then.

 

I sat on the floor with sleeping puppy on one side of me and shoveled treats into Brady's face every time he looked at or sniffed her. He has not once snarked at her, much less tried to eat her.

 

She has taught him her rules of play - which includes a good smackdown from time to time (even though he outweighs her by more than 10 lbs)

 

He adores her.  :)

 

I love that boy.... and those girls.  

[Lou... 3,118]

Buddy has been king for 10 years, that's a long time. He's pretty head strong to boot.

Time will tell.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Age does factor in.  Maggie was only 2.5 when we brought Brady home although she was a dog with a mind of her own, to be sure. We never pushed her to interact with him.  He just wormed his way in on his own.

 

Luckily while she was no pushover, she was a fair and benevolent dictator. 

 

Buddy may just want the little whippersnapper to leave him alone, and as long as Dobby does, things should be fine.

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

Sasha was 9 or 10 when we got drake. She literally ignored his existence. Then again, she ignored most of the family.... She was a mamas girl.

[Lou... 3,118]

 

Buddy may just want the little whippersnapper to leave him alone, and as long as Dobby does, things should be fine.

 

Unfortunately things are not fine.

Although I think Dobby would love to have Buddy as a play pal, in certain situations, Buddy has made it clear in an extremely aggressive, and scary manner, that it's not going to happen anytime soon. As a result, poor Dobby has learned to keep his distance. It's too bad because they would be great for each other.

 

When they're together without us there, they are fine. They spend hours and hours together in their room looking out onto the street during the day. Buddy's on the bed looking out, and Dobby is only about 3 feet away on an ottoman near the window. But if Buddy is around one of us, and Dobby wants to join in, forget it, Buddy goes crazy. For those of you that have met Buddy, you know that's not like him.

 

The good thing is that Dobby is fine, so we just have to work on Buddy. We could have had problems with the both of them.

[Nicki aka Rebelstand 272]

The transition period could take months Lou.

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

The transition period could take months Lou.

 

Especially since Buddy is older and used to having you all to himself.

 

It can be tough to get him to think of Dobby as a good thing and not a menace.

 

You can try bribery - extra special treats only when Dobby is around.

 

Also if he's guarding you, just get up and walk away.  The thinking is that Buddy realizes that behavior actually loses him the thing he wanted (you).

 

You probably know this stuff already, but you know me... can't keep my big trap shut. 

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Since I'm babbling anyway...

 

The one thing to avoid is scolding or punishing the aggressor for reacting to the other dog.  More likely than not that just builds up and reinforces to the first dog that bad things happen when the new dog is around.

[HappyCamper...Deb 61]

Since I wandered away from FF for a bit, I'm behind in threads. Managed to scan through this doggie naming thread quickly so as to catch up on the news of a new fiend. Dobby is adorable! And his middle name is... ??

[DaveInTN 3,247]

Mo obviously knows a lot about dogs, but I consider myself a bit of a behavioral specialist myself.  And I have noticed over the years that, when confronted with naughty or aggressive behavior, scotch usually helps.  

[Lou... 3,118]

The transition period could take months Lou.

 

Yup, probably.

 

You can try bribery - extra special treats only when Dobby is around.

 

 

I don't know exactly how to go about it, but I'm liking this approach.

If I could come up with some way to make Buddy think that having Dobby near him, and us, is a good thing, he may not try to attack him.

Think, think, think.

 

 but you know me... can't keep my big trap shut. 

 

I'm quoting this because, well, just because I think it's funny.

 

Since I'm babbling anyway...

 

 

Babble away, I'm listening.

 

The one thing to avoid is scolding or punishing the aggressor for reacting to the other dog. 

 

That's not going to happen. I defy anyone to be mean to anything that looks at you like this.

 

 

[Lou... 3,118]

And his middle name is... ?

 

House elves only have one name. (Harry Potter)

[BradyBzLyn...Mo 2,023]

Ok since you're listening, here goes nothing... 

 

I don't know exactly how to go about it, but I'm liking this approach.

If I could come up with some way to make Buddy think that having Dobby near him, and us, is a good thing, he may not try to attack him.

 

I know Buddy has some dietary restrictions because of his past medical issues, but if you can find an extrasuperspecial treat, something he'd do backflips for, that's a place to start.  The trick is that he ONLY gets those treats in Dobby's presence. If he can't do treats, the trick is going to be to find some other super high value reward.  For some BCs I know it can be a tug toy, frisbee or ball.

 

Brady used to react to any dog he saw that was closer than 100+ feet!  (not kidding)  In his case it was lack of socialization as a pup that resulted in a fear of other dogs.  His reaction was "the best defense is a good offense" - he was going to scare them away before they could get close enough to him.  That was a tough one and took a lot of time and desensitization to get over... but he largely did.  When we brought Bz home we had the one advantage of her being a puppy - i.e., he didn't seem to perceive her as too much of a threat - besides that, every single time he was in her presence he got treats shoveled into his face.  Lots of them (I scaled back dinner accordingly).  And the good stuff, not those run-of-the-mill dry biscuits.  We're talking cheese, chicken, liver, etc.

 

Example of how this works...

 

It's sometimes easier to setup sessions like this than try and do it in the course of a normal day. In fact in the beginning, I'd recommend managing things so that there aren't any outbursts, even if that means keeping them separate. The risk of the situation perpetuating is that  Dobby becomes afraid of Buddy and that fear starts to result in unwanted behaviors on his part, and/or Buddy gets to practice the bad behavior so that it becomes a bad habit.

 

Have one of you sit in a room with Buddy as far from the doorway as you can. If he's actively going after Dobby, I recommend having him on a leash just in case, but make sure you keep it loose with no tension on it.  It's really just there in case you need to catch Buddy if he decides to take off after Dobby.   The other person walks Dobby in on a leash (far enough away that Buddy isn't reacting - see below). As soon as Dobby appears, "Good Boy!" TREAT and then walk Dobby out of the room quickly.  Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

 

Eventually start incorporating this method into other scenarios - either deliberate or just in your normal routine.  Repetition and consistency are key.

 

The important part is making sure to reward Buddy BEFORE he reacts to Dobby - so you have to get a sense of what's his "bubble" for how close he wants Dobby to get, and always work outside that.  With time and repetition the bubble should shrink.  If he reacts to Dobby, "too bad" and walk HIM out of the room.  Dobby stays, he goes.  (you might want to treat Dobby just for being a good sport in all this).  Take Dobby out of the room, bring Buddy back in and give it another go. It might take a few tries to figure out where the bubble is. Just remember no scolding of Buddy if he reacts, just a time out until he settles back down, then try again.  Or if you need to, give it a rest and try another day.

 

If it seems to be guarding more than anything with Buddy (vs general aggression where he goes after Dobby pretty much any time he sees him), don't give him anything to guard.  That goes back to, if he reacts to Dobby by guarding you, you remove yourself from Buddy.  Eventually Buddy should realize that his reaction LOSES him the thing he actually wants.  Here's a biggie... DO NOT give Buddy any attention for reacting.  I've seen people pet dogs that were guarding them, trying to "soothe" them. Congratulations, you've just rewarded your dog for being an ass and guarding you. 

 

Buddy has to realize that guarding you gets him nothing except for a time out.

 

If he's guarding stuff... well honestly there's a way to work on that too, but I'm more inclined to say just don't leave the stuff around where both dogs can get to it.  That might mean feeding them in separate locations and not leaving certain toys/bones lying around.

 

Hopefully some of that makes sense.  Sometimes even I think I just ramble on and on and on (no comment, Bob)

 

I'm quoting this because, well, just because I think it's funny.

 

 

:raspberry:

 

 

That's not going to happen. I defy anyone to be mean to anything that looks at you like this.

 

Indeed!!  :)

 

Just remember, a "correction" doesn't have to be overtly mean.  It can be something as simple as a quick jerk on leash or a slightly raised voice saying "No!" Buddy's got to think that all good things result from Dobby's presence - rainbows, unicorns, bones raining from the sky, the whole shebang!

[Lou... 3,118]

Thanks Mo. I'm not going to see a bill in my mailbox, am I?

It's all good stuff, but because of the exact situation where the aggressions occurs, we'll have to modify it somewhat.

Luckily it occurs only when Buddy is right next to one of us either in a chair or in bed, and Dobby attempts to join in.

They're fine together the rest of the time. They eat next to each other, go for walks together, play side by side, but not with each other, and once they're both sitting next to us, Buddy is fine with Dobby practically laying on top of him. It's Buddy's response when he has us all to himself, and Dobby jumps up to join in.