Avatab.... Steve

I'm sure TDC will answer you, but don't forget this is the same Disney that had the chance to really expand and enhance the Fort pools into more modern water features as they have done with all of the hotels. They had the pools all ripped apart and could have done anything they wanted. So what did they do while they had the chance? They filled in the deep end to avoid lawsuits..... To be fair they did add a really tame slide and a way-too small hot tub. But they didn't add so much as an inch of pool space or any other themeing. I would also LOVE to see a new pool or small

Seems like Disney is threading the line between making prices so high that demand drops or keeping them low and having zero availability. I still don't understand their reluctance to build out more loops. Yes, it requires roads and utilities, but compared to building new DVC resorts it's simple. Besides the 600 loop extension, when was the last new camping loop? I don't blame you about the hotel rooms, I feel the same way, I would rather jump thru hoops to bring the camper.

So for you it's a combination of high price and the lack of availablilty. What if they raised the price and had more sites open as a result (easy availability)? Or, what if the price was lower, but you had to book wayyyy ahead of time to get the site? Would either of those make a difference? I'm not sure which would for me, I guess it would depend on how flexible my time was (and how fat my wallet was )

Correct. Those of us that have been going there for awhile ( I started in the 80's ) can see quite clearly the changes both good and bad. To some the bad changes seem to have outweighed the good, especially in recent years. Having said that, I think we all agree the Fort is still by far the best way to visit WDW. But, like a family holding an intervention to keep a beloved relative from even more bad behaviour, we meet here at FF to try and keep what we all love from slipping even further. I know we all reacted when we saw the leaked plans for the RC DVC and the parking lot pla

Some of my posts in this thread were sounding awfully cynical so I tried to put my thinking cap on and come up with an idea that might be worth pitching to Disney as an alternative to letting the Fort continue to get louder, more overcrowded and chaotic.... My attempt to make Lemonade out of Lemons if you like. I'm sure you are right about Disney, I just wish there was a way we could influence the direction they are letting the Fort go. OK, back into our Doom Buggies and the regularly-scheduled Snarkiness.

Thank you, and I Agree that Disney is one of the few places that could support 3 separate CGs and run them the right way (if they were inclined to do that ) In fact WDW's whole marketing plan revolves around Value/Moderate/Deluxe/DVC for their resorts. FW is kind of the odd man out and this would fix that. And they absolutely could adapt the Fort to have all 3 levels Value, Moderate, and Deluxe within one CG. Either as an interim step while they build new CG's or as the long term solution if there is room to build out. Wouldn't it be nice to see that sign again out by the MK

You wouldn't have to limit it to weekend campers, but rather for those who are looking for a bargain, only staying for a day or two or three, and/or don't really care too much about where their camper is parked as long as it is parked at WDW. I believe there is money to be made by treating campsites more like they do hotel rooms or even DVC rooms. Here's what I would pitch to Disney if I were to find myself in front of "them": "In order to maximize appeal to our camping guests let's create a tiered system of RV sites similar to how we have a tiered system of hotel rooms.

Debbie brings up two more good points, both of which, like the booking, have simple solutions if Disney had the desire to solve them. Golf Carts: As Debbie rightly points out, there are too many carts and too few security. Solution? Put BIG easy-to-read License plates or Numbers on every cart. On the public roads, if the police get calls about a crazy driver they can check the plate and possibly take some action, FW could do the same. If they get 2 or more calls about the same cart send someone to talk to the person its registered to, read them the riot act and/or take the c

Good points by Shanta and Debbie about the booking procedures and meeting demand. There is one other way that they could remedy the problem and make everyone happy, both weekenders and long-term BUILD MORE CAMPSITES! It baffles me why they would jump through hoops to "massage" demand for a product when they could easily just make more product..... Build some new loops w/ bigger sites just for long term campers, or build a new campground that caters to weekenders with just the basics. If it were up to me, I would approach camping at WDW just like they do the resorts:

Good work Fiend-On-The-Scene Is that an outhouse on the beach in the background or an equipment locker?

Looks like a good idea if you are stuck out on an open plain. If you are in the woods the bigger threat in a tent is falling trees or branches. Maybe if they modified the design slightly to protect against all of the effects of a thunderstorm. Make the sides out of hard shiny aluminum, round off the top so that rain and debris slide right off, and put a set of wheels under it so you can move it to the perfect spot. Oh, wait...... uh nevermind

It is a very good point. If any of us rolled into FW tomorrow never having been there before, I think it's safe to say that we would be impressed and happy. (except maybe for the whole too many cars, trucks and crazy golf carts thing..... ) None of us would be here on FF if we didn't Love the Fort with a capitol L, even with imperfections. And that's the problem. We do love the Fort and most of us HAVE been there before, some of us many,many times. As good as the Fort still is, like so many other things around us these days it should be better, it WAS better.

I want a hat

Sure looks the same. Is that a g-g-g-gun he's holding?????? OMG! Wait till the PC police see that.... So Musket Mickey bad, Rifle Indian good? LOL

I've smelled that on the monorail too......

I got one of those last year to use at our local place that doesn't allow wood fires and it is great. They have no problem w/ these since as you say they don't throw embers of any kind. I don't know why Disney wouldn't allow them. Seems like the perfect solution.

And that is the heart of the matter. The Fort is NOT what I expect from Disney. It is still nicer than your avg KOA, and it certainly has location going for it, but it is not what it used to be..... That is why some of us here sound overly critical. Disney used to care about FW and it showed. For several years now that has not been the case.

You are saying what many of us have felt for awhile. I have said here many times that Disney should have been expanding the Fort all along or building new CG's to keep pace with demand in general and for larger sites in particular. I also believe that the widely abused 10 person per site rule has been a contributor to this downward slide. The intent (Walt's intent) was to give middle class/working class families an affordable and clean place to come to Disney with all their kids in a station wagon and a tent or a trailer w/o spending a fortune. The Fort was never intended to ha

Yeah, and if I know Disney, once they saw that there was a demand, we'll soon be seeing the Disney version of said candles.... Probably made by slave-babies in China with new scents like Hot Damp and Stuffy Monorail Smell, or Algae Clogged Irrigation Ditch....

That guy with him looks familiar..... Wasn't he in one of TCD's trip reports escorting the talking Trashcan or something?

When they put the views out to the public it will be fun to see if the cameras caught anyone doing anything crazy. The Google cams have caught some very strange things in the past.... TCD might even find some RMOG's mixed in there I wonder if they will just do the parks or include the resorts like the Fort?

As some here know I have a love-hate relationship with Disney trees after one fell on top of my Class C several years ago at the Fort.... And I do agree with you that they own the property and have mostly done a good job with landscaping, and I also agree that if they were cutting trees to make more campsites we would all be on board! But you have to agree that it's ironic that they would be clear cutting wilderness at a place called the "Wilderness Lodge" especially after they did such a careful job of keeping that wilderness surrounding the original DVC buildings. Is it just a

TCD already touched on this but I also agree. It seems as though the larger the group, the more likely they will ignore any or all violations. And of course, the larger the group, the more money they are spending at Disney. Coincidence? I don't think so.

If you look carefully, Campingdad actually hit several of them! 1. Lazy people. 2. People who can't back up. 3. People who buy crazy humongous oversize campers (and then can't back them up..). 4. Too many cars on one site. 5. Too many people on one site. 6. Children driving golf carts. To be fair, he did say that too many cars and people didn't really bother him. Welcome Campingdad! You will fit right in here at FortFiends (just work on getting more upset at the cars and people thing...)

I HATE the BLT. Prime example of all that is wrong with the current version of Disney. IMHO it looks like someone tacked an old Holiday Inn onto the side of the Contemporary..... It has nothing in common with the architecture of the Contemporary, it has no unique appeal, styling, or attributes. It reflects laziness, greed and a lack of imagination of the people in charge.