The Troll

Phew!

Man, I'm late to this party. Sorry to be so far behind...but is there evidence the Pioneer Hall is going away???

Hi, everyone. Just read this. Hadn't thought about it. Good Lord, this would be devastating. And it's probably true.

Sadly, this photo says it all. Fort Wilderness just isn't a campground anymore. It's a poorly designed parking lot with an annoying smattering of trees. It's just a sad reflection of modern suburban America.

I have often seen people wading in the water at Disney and, quite frankly, been very surprised by it. I think it's another case of lax rules enforcement. Disney needs to batten down the hatches on the rules. I know they're a vacation destination and, accordingly, they don't want to put a cloud over anyone's vacation by wagging a finger at them...but...

Exactly. I'm saying a fence will go up for liability purposes.

I assume this means fencing will be installed at all the resort beaches.

What a great, great report! It's so great to see you back in the game, TCD. Thanks for all the time and hard effort you put into it. Your photography is somehow even better than ever. So many things to comment on. Too many. I agree with your assessment of Disney Springs. In my mind, it's a bit of an escalator to nowhere. Lots of impractical, grossly overpriced shops like "The Art of Shaving," where you can buy a $50 disposable razor. But like you say, you can't blame Disney for trying. Every time a guest leaves property for a competing shopping destination, that's cash they're bleeding.

Yes, I agree, and I'm partly or largely responsible for the thread going off the rails. For that, I apologize. You make a great point. Evidently the Fort is profitable enough for it to remain open but not so profitable (like the DVCs) that it warrants any sort of expansion. Say what I will, but there just is no arguing with success -- or profits. I'm not entirely crazy about the DVC business model, but it's clearly hugely profitable, so I'm wrong about that. On the matter of what the Fort has become and when it no longer becomes worth it, I point to this: Maybe I'm being a bit

I understand what you're saying and it's an excellent point. I'm even seriously considering buying an F250 to pull my little camper with. I don't fault the owners of the trucks, I fault the management of the Fort. The Fort was designed in the late 1960s to accommodate modest campers, tents, and station wagons. It was not designed to accommodate today's monster vehicles and campers. Yet the Fort still charges premium prices and expects people to somehow thread and snake their vehicles into narrow sites, using an extremely narrow, one-way road as access. The result is the incessant, "Pull f

Thank you, Andrew. I am glad to know that, at a minimum, I am not crazy. That there are still some intelligent people left who understand what the Fort once was and who understand what the hell is wrong. In a sense, it's hard to fault Disney for doing what it's meant to do -- make money. But! Think of the original vision of the Fort: Campground. For middle class families. Who take their kids to the parks and buy princess dresses and pirate muskets. MONEY. But I guess that's not a thing in America anymore. Now the middle class families pile into a value resort. And the campground beco

Well, OK, you asked for it! Before I say anything, please, everyone, please understand I am not trying to be mean-spirited, argumentative, or ugly. And I certainly do not mean to offend anyone. I love this site and I love everyone on it. Probably the best message board I'm a member of. So if anything I write offends anyone, please accept my apologies in advance. So now here we go. The place has become a dump. I fell in love with the Fort as a child. My memories of the place are of modest middle class families in modest station wagons pulling modest travel trailers or popups a

Well, Leslie and I just got back from a two week stay at the Fort, and I have to say, we probably won't be going back.

I know, right? Just so many irrational people in the world. I have to say that I really enjoyed reading the article posted above and that the California Adventure looks like a smash hit, to me. It looks like an awesome theme park. I love the fact that Disney was able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. It re-instills some confidence in me about America in general, somehow. With the right minds and the right vision and sufficient money, just about anything can be done in America.

I agree it's crazy. Crazy how people forget their own histories and then bite the hand that feeds them. I work on an Air Force base. People come here, desperate for a good-paying job. They land a job on base, then buy a house nearby so that their commute is short. Then complain about the jet noise. And sue the Federal government.

I love everything about a TCD trip report, but my absolute favorite part is the morning solo walking tours of the Fort and the observations and commentary. Great stuff. We should really market this stuff to expand the readership.

While the new light posts are not consistent with the old classic ones, they're not bad. I wonder if the old classic ones will be phased out and replaced gradually by these? (Welcome to FF.net, where nerds like me discuss the minutiae of a campground in excruciating detail.)

Just a quick observation. Is this a new survey marker in front of an elderly survey marker?

Bam! There's a first time for everything...even being first!

Very interesting post about the wilderness tour thing. While it sounds like a lot of money for what you get, I like the idea that FW is being showcased. Shows the place, in my mind, is still valued in management's eye. I wonder if the tour of the DI landing is "from the comfort and safety of the vessel"? I've been very hard on DI over the years, but after re-examining a lot of the old photos posted here of the place, it seems like it had tremendous potential...and maybe I've been too hard on it. There are a lot of cool pictures of walking trails and bridges and such. It would be very cool

It's funny how that works psychologically...or at least according to my psychology. I agree that everything doesn't have to be be castles and fairy tales. In fact, the attractions I like most are the ones that aren't castles and fairy tales. When an attraction is made rustic, rundown, and "gritty" it's OK for something from a different time period. Like BTMRR. I love how everything is rusty, faded, and sort of broken down. But build an attraction based on something contemporary and make it gritty and broken down and it's just an eyesore, to me.

It's funny how that works psychologically...or at least according to my psychology. I agree that everything doesn't have to be be castles and fairy tales. In fact, the attractions I like most are the ones that aren't castles and fairy tales. When an attraction is made rustic, rundown, and "gritty" it's OK for something from a different time period. Like BTMRR. I love how everything is rusty, faded, and sort of broken down. But build an attraction based on something contemporary and make it gritty and broken down and it's just an eyesore, to me.

You know, how is this a theme park? Seriously -- let's recreate the rundown, economically depressed, blighted areas of Africa and model a theme park after them. Complete with ratty clothes hanging from a clothesline, rundown buildings, and poorly wired power lines. And this is especially beautiful: This is the kind of real world depressed crap I try to escape when I go to Disney parks.

Yeah, I agree -- I have to wonder, too, if there isn't another side to this story, considering the guy didn't get ejected. Like maybe the mom stole something from the guy and attempted to ellude him by dipping into the ladies room. Like the saying goes: There are always two sides to every story, and the truth is often somewhere in the middle. Here in my neighborhood not too long ago, there was this military guy who scared the bee jeebies out of all the women in the neighborhood by reporting on our neighboorhood message board (yes, we have one) that a man had been stalking his wife and secr

Yep. Every time we've been to Europe the pickpockets were a problem. They target us Americans. We've learned to carry money deep in a double-tough backpack with a padlock on it. Never let the schmucks help you with your luggage on the trains, either. They're thieves. And the European police are merely for decoration, apparently.